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Post by leeb on Mar 28, 2019 11:50:32 GMT -5
I'm sure brushy was left handed until the tintype was reversed then he was right handed and then went on to be ambidextrous
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Post by lacowboy on Mar 28, 2019 16:21:10 GMT -5
The copy of the tintype used in the above comparison has been flipped left to right because the original was a horizontally reversed image, like you see when you look into a mirror. When Brushy died in 1950 it was not common knowledge that the tintype photo was reversed. Consequently most people thought the photo showed Billy holding his rifle with his right hand and wearing his pistol on the left side. Even years after Brushy’s death it was generally not known about the reversed image as attested to by the release of the Paul Newman movie “Left Handed Gun” in 1958. It wasn’t until much later that most people knew. Yet by 1950 Brushy had stood for at least two photos where he mimicked the pose he had struck all those years before. And he got it right! How would he have known the correct pose when most of his contemporaries did not. I find I can come to only one conclusion from your analogy. That they must have been one and the same person.
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Post by MissyS on Mar 28, 2019 18:03:32 GMT -5
I'm sure brushy was left handed until the tintype was reversed then he was right handed and then went on to be ambidextrous I believe it would have been pretty easy to prove or debunk being ambidextrous, so I don't know why Brushy would take a chance and say he was if he wasn't?
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Post by leeb on Mar 29, 2019 4:53:26 GMT -5
Mystery solved. Brushy was the kid because he died before the release of a Paul Newman film. Amazing!
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 29, 2019 11:24:20 GMT -5
Of course, no one said that. Surely you can understand the real point here but maybe, somehow, you missed it. Brushy recreated the tintype pose correctly when most people were not aware it was a reverse image. Maybe Morrison or some other person, maybe the guy with the camera, knew the tintype was reversed and advised Brushy on how to stand, but "I" think that is unlikely. I am of the opinion that Brushy wore his pistol on his right side because that's the way he'd always done it, just like Billy The Kid. Coincidence? Who knows? But please don't think anyone who has an opinion like mine is stupid or something. I assure you that is not the case.
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Post by leeb on Mar 29, 2019 12:29:18 GMT -5
Probably 95% of people would wear a pistol to the right? And I'm pretty sure i didn't use the word stupid. Most people wouldn't know about the reversed image but how many did?
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Post by leeb on Mar 29, 2019 14:27:32 GMT -5
Of course, no one said that. Surely you can understand the real point here but maybe, somehow, you missed it. Brushy recreated the tintype pose correctly when most people were not aware it was a reverse image. Maybe Morrison or some other person, maybe the guy with the camera, knew the tintype was reversed and advised Brushy on how to stand, but "I" think that is unlikely. I am of the opinion that Brushy wore his pistol on his right side because that's the way he'd always done it, just like Billy The Kid. Coincidence? Who knows? But please don't think anyone who has an opinion like mine is stupid or something. I assure you that is not the case. Brushy is your bread n butter, it pays the bills. It's all opinions but if i don't agree with yourself it seems that your somewhat patronising.
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 29, 2019 19:58:48 GMT -5
"Brushy is your bread n butter, it pays the bills. "
I have never made a single penny off this message board. It pays no one's bills. I created it so myself and others could have a place to discuss without harassment. I don't mean to belittle your opinion. I just felt that your previous comment:
"Mystery solved. Brushy was the kid because he died before the release of a Paul Newman film. Amazing!"
Was sarcastic and a bit uncalled for. That said, I apologize if my post was patronizing. That is the kind of thing I created this board to avoid.
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Post by nmjames on Mar 30, 2019 0:12:45 GMT -5
leeb
In the book Alias Billy The Kid by Morrison, Brushy seemed to go out of his way to make sure everyone knew he was left-handed or strong left-handed. On page 6, Brushy talked about being in a gun fight and emptied his pistol on his left hip and had to draw his right one. He states he wasn't as fast with his right hand as he was with his left. He states he was ambidextrous but was left-handed naturally. On page 53, Brushy states that in 1890, he tried boxing. He said he was left-handed and fast. Even the statue in Hico has his pistol in his left hand. I have been told that Brushy may have been right-handed and that may be why he may not have thought about it and placed the pistol in his right hand and rifle in his left. In a newspaper article about his visit to Santa Fe, they talk about Brushy using his right hand more and when he would realize what he was doing, he would move the item to his left. I think he thought Billy was left-handed so he had to be also.
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Post by leeb on Mar 30, 2019 4:37:19 GMT -5
Does anyone know what brushy's financial situation was throughout his lifetime?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Mar 30, 2019 22:55:18 GMT -5
Does anyone know what brushy's financial situation was throughout his lifetime? leeb, According to Brushy's story, Tom Waggoner gave him $10,000 for winning the cowboy roundup in 1889 Cheyenne. From credible records, Oliver had enough money to make a down payment on 80 acres in Sevier County, Arkansas, in 1918. He did not own a farm in 1910; was a farm laborer working for someone else in the 1920 census; was working on his own account in 1930; and was retired in 1940.
There are some interesting characters in Brushy’s story. “Alas Billy the Kid”, p. 83 From Brushy’s narrative about a dance in the Creek Nation at Roundtop Mountain in 1888: “Jack Shaw, Tony McClure, and Ozark Jack were all shot up pretty bad. Ozark Jack is still living. I saw him about a year ago.” Ozark Jack was Andrew Jackson Berlin. There is a photo of Brushy and Ozark Jack Berlin on p. 66 of “Billy the Kid and Me Were the Same”. The photo was taken 4 September 1949 in Stanton, Missouri. They were there to attend the 102 birthday of Jesse James, who was killed in 1882. Brushy’s acquaintance, John Frank Dalton, had signed an affidavit in Lawton, Oklahoma, that he was Jesse Woodson James, and they were there for Dalton's supposed 102nd birthday. Ozark Jack lived in Claremont, Richland County, Illinois, in 1880. He married about 1890, and in 1900 he was a sawmill engineer in Van Buren Township, Fountain County, Indiana.
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Post by leeb on Mar 31, 2019 10:31:12 GMT -5
Does anyone know what brushy's financial situation was throughout his lifetime? leeb, According to Brushy's story, Tom Waggoner gave him $10,000 for winning the cowboy roundup in 1889 Cheyenne. From credible records, Oliver had enough money to make a down payment on 80 acres in Sevier County, Arkansas, in 1918. He did not own a farm in 1910; was a farm laborer working for someone else in the 1920 census; was working on his own account in 1930; and was retired in 1940.
There are some interesting characters in Brushy’s story. “Alas Billy the Kid”, p. 83 From Brushy’s narrative about a dance in the Creek Nation at Roundtop Mountain in 1888: “Jack Shaw, Tony McClure, and Ozark Jack were all shot up pretty bad. Ozark Jack is still living. I saw him about a year ago.” Ozark Jack was Andrew Jackson Berlin. There is a photo of Brushy and Ozark Jack Berlin on p. 66 of “Billy the Kid and Me Were the Same”. The photo was taken 4 September 1949 in Stanton, Missouri. They were there to attend the 102 birthday of Jesse James, who was killed in 1882. Brushy’s acquaintance, John Frank Dalton, had signed an affidavit in Lawton, Oklahoma, that he was Jesse Woodson James, and they were there for Dalton's supposed 102nd birthday. Ozark Jack lived in Claremont, Richland County, Illinois, in 1880. He married about 1890, and in 1900 he was a sawmill engineer in Van Buren Township, Fountain County, Indiana. $10,000 is roughly $300,000 today, so he wasn't short of money
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Post by mckinley412 on Jul 18, 2020 13:11:00 GMT -5
They do not make a lot of left handed holsters, why would they, 10 percent of the population is left handed? Brushy never changed his story to say he was right handed. The newspaper clipping I see does not say anything about him switching to his left when he realized what he was doing. Since most people believed Billy was left handed the newspaper was trying to pick up on anything that might debunk him, they mentioned he used his right hand to unbutton his jacket, drink water, and use a cane. These are typical things any left handed person would do anyway. Did you know that using a cane sort of depends on which is the dominant leg and which is the bum leg and really has nothing to do with which hand you are dominant with? That's stuff I don't even have to look up, I was just born with that knowledge or something. Right handed baseball players use a glove on their left hand to catch with just in case anyone thinks nobody would use their non-dominant hand for anything. They thought it was noteworthy to mention that he used his right hand to drink with I am right handed and I think I pour with my right and drink with my left. I'm not really ambidextrous but shooting pistols with either hand is fairly equal but rifle is more difficult.
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jimmy
2 - 19 Posts
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Post by jimmy on Mar 7, 2021 11:06:51 GMT -5
They do not make a lot of left handed holsters, why would they, 10 percent of the population is left handed? Brushy never changed his story to say he was right handed. The newspaper clipping I see does not say anything about him switching to his left when he realized what he was doing. Since most people believed Billy was left handed the newspaper was trying to pick up on anything that might debunk him, they mentioned he used his right hand to unbutton his jacket, drink water, and use a cane. These are typical things any left handed person would do anyway. Did you know that using a cane sort of depends on which is the dominant leg and which is the bum leg and really has nothing to do with which hand you are dominant with? That's stuff I don't even have to look up, I was just born with that knowledge or something. Right handed baseball players use a glove on their left hand to catch with just in case anyone thinks nobody would use their non-dominant hand for anything. They thought it was noteworthy to mention that he used his right hand to drink with I am right handed and I think I pour with my right and drink with my left. I'm not really ambidextrous but shooting pistols with either hand is fairly equal but rifle is more difficult. Shooting a pistol with your non-dominant hand is not “fairly equal”. I’m a retired police officer and we had to train shooting non dominant hand. It is not easy and I would never want to have to do that in a gunfight. You can teach yourself to do it. But it will never be equal.
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Post by RonBk on Mar 9, 2021 5:48:40 GMT -5
They do not make a lot of left handed holsters, why would they, 10 percent of the population is left handed? Brushy never changed his story to say he was right handed. The newspaper clipping I see does not say anything about him switching to his left when he realized what he was doing. Since most people believed Billy was left handed the newspaper was trying to pick up on anything that might debunk him, they mentioned he used his right hand to unbutton his jacket, drink water, and use a cane. These are typical things any left handed person would do anyway. Did you know that using a cane sort of depends on which is the dominant leg and which is the bum leg and really has nothing to do with which hand you are dominant with? That's stuff I don't even have to look up, I was just born with that knowledge or something. Right handed baseball players use a glove on their left hand to catch with just in case anyone thinks nobody would use their non-dominant hand for anything. They thought it was noteworthy to mention that he used his right hand to drink with I am right handed and I think I pour with my right and drink with my left. I'm not really ambidextrous but shooting pistols with either hand is fairly equal but rifle is more difficult. Shooting a pistol with your non-dominant hand is not “fairly equal”. I’m a retired police officer and we had to train shooting non dominant hand. It is not easy and I would never want to have to do that in a gunfight. You can teach yourself to do it. But it will never be equal. It is fairly equal to shoot with either hand if you are ambidextrous. So for Btk/Brushy that was probably not a huge concern. But how can we know for sure which was the Kids preferred gun hand? A holster cant tell for certain. He might just as well have had two holsters, one on each hip, right? Andrew Jackson Berlin seems like an interesting character, what about those other fellows mentioned above, Jack Shaw and Tony McClure, anyone know where to find more info on them?
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