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Post by clydec on Feb 1, 2019 19:21:45 GMT -5
 Here is a really good enhanced photo of Brushy on horseback. By looking at his riding equipment and looking at the signs on the building behind Brushy you can try and date this photo. I have heard dates of anywhere between 1890 which is when Brushy said it was taken up to 1920. |
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Post by MissyS on Feb 4, 2019 22:49:55 GMT -5
Clydec, Thats a great idea of yours to study the background, it looks like some of the signs are of old tobacco ads, the Battle Ax sign could be from 1890's? From what I can dig up; The American Tobacco Company was founded in 1890 I'm not sure when the company started using the Battle AX label? I found a link to an ad for Battle AX tobacco printed 1896 www.weirduniverse.net/blog/comments/you_are_discharged/I don't know when the company stopped endorsing that name? but the link says in 1907 is when the American Tobacco Company was made into four different firms, I don't know if this is the last year Battle Ax label was used?, and it's hard to tell how long the signs been hanging in the photo? The War Eagle cigar ad produced by Roth, Bruner & Feist Co. Cincinnati, Ohio, I can't seem to find much info on when this company was established, or much history at all? |
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Post by clydec on Feb 5, 2019 11:20:14 GMT -5
Missy, I had one gentleman over on the cold west site say that the Stirrups were cast steel and were popular in the 1920's so he figured the photo was around 1920 or so, which if true and by figuring Brushy to be mid to late thirties in this photo would rule him out as being the kid. But, Michelle Hawthorne, another member of cold west found some photos of older Iron Stirrups which were identical to the ones in the photos and dated from mid-1800's to early 1900s and so Brushy's date of 1890 could well be correct for this photo. If the 1890 date is correct, than it rules out Brushy being Oliver P Roberts and whom would have only been 11 years old at the time
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Post by MissyS on Feb 6, 2019 20:21:18 GMT -5
Clydec, You brought up some very good points.  I found a reference online to some War Eagle cigar tins that sold at auction dating at 1920, so that brand was around at that date, but those signs and the others also look rustic or weathered to me, theres some signs and emblems also that are hard to make out hanging up, and a name too small to read that could give some clues if it was more clearer. Looking close up at Brushy although his hair looks dark on the side his head, his facial hair and his bangs look whitish to me, could he be older than late 30's?, hes also wearing suspenders, a kinda typical item for an older man to wear, it's by no means a definite indication of age though, but i wanted to add it anyway. Did Brushy ever say where it was taken? |
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Post by montanas on Feb 7, 2019 9:16:36 GMT -5
Can anyone make out the first letter before the SS on the large poster above the horses neck? Also the first word of the one just under it. The second word is clearly Tobacco. I'm assuming the one with the SS is also a tobacco add, since everything else seems to be. AS for the stirrups, a general google search pulls lots of them up. Some on ebay now. Many have been listed as being from 1890's.
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Post by MissyS on Feb 7, 2019 15:47:09 GMT -5
Montanas,
Looking close it looks like the top right corner of the Star Tobacco sign is covering up the bottom of the first letter in the SS sign and looks like the small word BIDDERS on the bottom corner of the SS sign as well? If this is a 1890 photo would that mean it must be a tintype photo?, if so shouldn't the lettering in the signs be reading backwards?
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Post by clydec on Feb 7, 2019 16:23:47 GMT -5
 Here is another photo comparison of Brushy at around 28 or 29 and the globe Arizona photo of possibly Billy and Joe. It looks like the same man in both photos to me only at different ages and being more filled out in the older photo. Notice the shape of the jaw on both men. Both seem to be thicker on the right side than the left with a dimple in the middle. Brushy's is more noticeable because he is older and has more weight on and his facial features are more filled out. Notice the right eyebrow of both men that comes out further onto the bridge of the nose. Both men have a left ear that sticks out further than the right. Notice also on the right side of the jaw what looks to me to be a small bump on both men. This is the same man in both photos I believe about 15 years apart. |
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Post by mckinley412 on Feb 13, 2019 11:26:09 GMT -5
Battle Ax, Star Tobacoo and Eagle tobacco.
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Post by clydec on Feb 22, 2019 9:39:22 GMT -5
Montanas, Looking close it looks like the top right corner of the Star Tobacco sign is covering up the bottom of the first letter in the SS sign and looks like the small word BIDDERS on the bottom corner of the SS sign as well? If this is a 1890 photo would that mean it must be a tintype photo?, if so shouldn't the lettering in the signs be reading backwards? It may have already been flipped to correct position Montanas. Not sure, I know it was in Brushy's collection found after he died. |
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Post by jgaines on Mar 20, 2019 17:08:23 GMT -5
Has anyone else seen the reference to this picture on the Cold West site where someone claims he can make out the brand on that horse as being the brand of Susan McSween Barber's ranch brand. If this is true, this is a very interesting piece of information.
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Post by clydec on Mar 22, 2019 8:26:31 GMT -5
What I heard jgaines is that the brand is that of the Anti Horse theft association. I personally can not see any brand, but it is hard to because of the poor quality of the photo.
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Post by mckinley412 on Apr 2, 2019 0:33:34 GMT -5
jgaines somebody had matched that horse thing to an old horse thingy and they showed pics to match it. and it was a match. They did that on facebook.
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Post by MissyS on Oct 20, 2019 23:28:48 GMT -5
Here is a really good enhanced photo of Brushy on horseback. By looking at his riding equipment and looking at the signs on the building behind Brushy you can try and date this photo. I have heard dates of anywhere between 1890 which is when Brushy said it was taken up to 1920. I do believe this photo of Brushy on horseback could possibly have been taken at Buffalo Gap? There is a location in Buffalo gap that looks like the building behind him, (restored of course) An old historic Texaco. What it was or looked like before it was a Texaco station is a guess?, and maybe an older photo of it's historic beginnings can be found? The window height from the ground and wall behind Brushy does favor the background building some in the Texaco photo. It's a historic site now located within a historic village in Buffalo Gap, if the photo was taken there, it may date back? I know there's a lot of old buildings that the photo's background can resemble, but I thought this photo of the Texaco on the page looks close enough to be a possibility. www.texasescapes.com/TexasTowns/Buffalo-Gap-Texas.htm |
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Post by montanas on Dec 5, 2019 20:20:10 GMT -5
Rufus made a statement in one of the other posts ( i couldn't find it ) that the horse in this pic has the brand of Susan Mcsween Barber. I've looked, though not very hard, to find what they brand was. The only thing I could find is a Wicapedia reference saying that she ran her cattle under the Three Rivers Cattle Company brand. When searching for their brand I could not find it either. Does anyone know what it was and where on the horse it is supposed to be, if their at all?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 22:06:19 GMT -5
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Here is a really good enhanced photo of Brushy on horseback. By looking at his riding equipment and looking at the signs on the building behind Brushy you can try and date this photo. I have heard dates of anywhere between 1890 which is when Brushy said it was taken up to 1920.
I found a reference online to some War Eagle cigar tins that sold at auction dating at 1920, so that brand was around at that date, but those signs and the others also look rustic or weathered to me, theres some signs and emblems also that are hard to make out hanging up, and a name too small to read that could give some clues if it was more clearer. Looking close up at Brushy although his hair looks dark on the side his head, his facial hair and his bangs look whitish to me, could he be older than late 30's?, hes also wearing suspenders, a kinda typical item for an older man to wear, it's by no means a definite indication of age though, but i wanted to add it anyway. Did Brushy ever say where it was taken?
