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Post by susan on Oct 26, 2017 18:10:24 GMT -5
I have read many books about Billy The Kid as have a lot of people. I would like to know who is considered the ultimate authority on Billy The Kid and why. Is it Walter Noble Burns, Frederick Nolan, Ash Upson or just who?
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Post by mckinley412 on Oct 26, 2017 20:07:21 GMT -5
Nolan, and Utley probably. Except they don't believe in Brushy which probably means they still have a lot to learn. I personally like Brett Hall, Brushy author. And there's some really good ones that are in this group.
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Post by nmjames on Oct 26, 2017 20:42:00 GMT -5
susan
Mr. Nolan and Mr. Utley but I feel Mr. Nolan would place first. Mr. Nolan and Mr. Utley have both done a lot of research over the years but I feel Mr. Nolan has done more on Billy the Kid.
Thain: Because they have done so much research and are experts is the reason they don't believe Brushy was Billy and the fact that Brushy was not born until 1879.
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 26, 2017 23:41:13 GMT -5
Oliver Pleasant Roberts was born in 1879 according to census and other records. Brushy Bill Roberts was not Oliver Pleasant Roberts at least as far as anyone has proven. It has not been proven that Brushy Bill was born in 1879. Likewise, it has not been proven that he was not. Nor has it been proven whether or not he was Billy The Kid. Why can't we just all acknowledge that and get on with the discussion?
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Post by nmjames on Oct 27, 2017 0:18:30 GMT -5
Wayne:
I am sorry but we will just have to agree to disagree. I have researched Brushy and have his family line as well as other documents. When you can show me the other cousin or that Brushy was not Oliver P. Roberts. I may agree with you but until then I will go with what I have and that goes along with what Roy Hawz has. By the way I had already done my research before I knew of Roy. I can back my research up.
Thanks nmjames
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Post by nmjames on Oct 27, 2017 2:11:45 GMT -5
Wayne:
Even if Brushy were not Oliver P. Roberts and to me he was, Pat Garrett killed Billy the Kid on July 14, 1881. I have copies of the original Coroner's report filed in San Miguel County, Precinct No. 27 July 15, 1881 signe by M. Rudulph Presidente, with the other names and signed by Alejandro Seguro Jues de Paz. They did not use or have death certificate's back in 1881. I have copies in Spanish and English.
nmjames
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Post by mckinley412 on Oct 27, 2017 22:11:36 GMT -5
When you take all the mistakes the world's best Billy experts have made and compare them to the number of mistakes Brushy made it makes me think he had to have been Billy because historians just aren't that accurate. Nolan's only reason for not believing Brushy is the family bible otherwise he said the story holds up well when he messaged me on FB. I must see this bible. It must be truly spectacular evidence when seen in person. But Nolan can't figure out exactly how the jail break happened, he gave three scenarios and said none fit the evidence exactly, but I believe Brushy's version does. Someone also mentioned Brushy mentioned the ricochet before anyone else, idk. It depends on what info you want as to what expert you go to. For Billy's early childhood and death I would ask a Brushy guy, for authentication of the croquet pic I wouldnt go to any of the traditional historians as they were most likely wrong when they almost all unanimously agreed it wasn't him. However, they might be good for other things or something.
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Post by mckinley412 on Oct 28, 2017 19:31:53 GMT -5
Nmjames: Also I wonder that because they couldn't hold up to an actual discussion about Brushy is why they don't discuss it here, when people have a way to respond. I understand they have better things to do but so do I. Except my favorite thing to do is convince people I'm right about Brushy (and also to figure out where I'm wrong). But I'm open to new evidence. Maybe one of them wants to convince people that Billy died in 1881 and/or that Brushy wasn't him. Because I would gladly go on a traditional history of Billy the Kid site and have.- but their only arguments are is that I'm an idiot. Almost it always-every single time- results to name calling. But there is never an open honest discussion of the facts. My hypothesis is that if any one traditional expert could put up a good enough argument to win in a discussion group that they would not do well. We saw ten experts say the croquet pic wasn't him but that's neither here nor there, but it probably is him. Many are saying they know the location but the background doesn't match, but oh well. If Brushy is so ridiculous it should be easy for someone to argue their point (without name calling). My theory is that no one ever will because they don't have a good argument. And now I have to go prove why Fred Waite ran out because no one has sufficiently proved that he didn't. And I trust Burns who interviewed the old timers, and I trust Brushy who didn't make Burns' mistakes. I'll let you elaborate on Ealy if you want to. Yours Respect, Thain.
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Post by nmjames on Oct 28, 2017 20:48:15 GMT -5
Thain
Do you have the book, The Outlaw Statesman by Mike Tower? You might want to get it and read it if you don't have it.
nmjames
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Post by leeb on Nov 3, 2018 12:25:00 GMT -5
There are no experts, folklore, hearsay and opinions. If and i think are not facts!
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Post by mckinley412 on Nov 6, 2018 4:16:36 GMT -5
Nmjames, what is the Outlaw Statesman even about??? I have no idea why you would even ever recommend that to me.
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Post by nmjames on Nov 6, 2018 19:39:00 GMT -5
mckinley412,
The Outlaw Statesman is about Fred Waite. I thought you might read it and find out more about him. Brushy said that went they shot Sheriff Brady, he and Wayte (Waite) run out into the street. I didn't then and still do not feel that is correct.
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Post by leeb on Jan 8, 2019 14:10:53 GMT -5
I've spoken with Mr Nolan, Mr gombre, Mr turk and many others and all opinions differ. IS there truly an expert or do we all believe in what we want to?
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Post by Elwood on Nov 9, 2020 18:28:38 GMT -5
I have read many books about Billy The Kid as have a lot of people. I would like to know who is considered the ultimate authority on Billy The Kid and why. Is it Walter Noble Burns, Frederick Nolan, Ash Upson or just who? Another book about Billy the Kid, about the guy who invented Billy the Kid; Ash Upson, who was the ghost writer for Pat Garrett in the 1882 book, The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid. The man who invented Billy the Kid
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Post by Elwood on Nov 9, 2020 18:34:28 GMT -5
I have read many books about Billy The Kid as have a lot of people. I would like to know who is considered the ultimate authority on Billy The Kid and why. Is it Walter Noble Burns, Frederick Nolan, Ash Upson or just who? Another book about Billy the Kid, about the guy who invented Billy the Kid; Ash Upson, who was the ghost writer for Pat Garrett in the 1882 book, The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid. The man who invented Billy the KidThis link shows that the book is also available in a paperback for less money. Ash Upson book in paperback format
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