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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Nov 5, 2016 17:15:09 GMT -5
"Even if the affidavits are highly doubtful, they raise questions nevertheless. Unless these people have been coaxed by unknown means into signing something they knew full well was false , they apparently believed to have seen Billy the Kid - or someone they believed to be the Kid, since they hadn't met him before - after his official death in Fort Sumner. "
This is one definition of an affidavit. "An affidavit is based upon either the personal knowledge of the affiant or his or her information and belief. Personal knowledge is the recognition of particular facts by either direct observation or experience. Information and belief is what the affiant feels he or she can state as true, although not based on firsthand knowledge."
The affidavits of DeWitt Travis, Robert E. Lee, and Martile Able were not based on personal knowledge.
The story told by Brushy Bill that he was Billy the Kid may have been so convincing that DeWitt Travis, Robert E. Lee, and Martile Able could have sworn, in good faith, that they BELIEVED he was Billy the Kid, although none of them had firsthand knowledge.
Brushy Bill had convinced William Morrison that he was Billy the Kid. Brushy's story lacked credibility. Morrison wanted affidavits (see p. 113 of Alias Billy the Kid). Morrison was anxious to obtain affidavits attesting to the fact that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. Page 109 of "Alias Billy the Kid": During the month of April 1950, Morrison and Brushy Bill went on a pilgrimage to interview as many old settlers as possible. Two old settlers, Sam and Bill Jones, declined to sign affidavits.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Nov 5, 2016 17:45:33 GMT -5
"If Brushy was not Billy The Kid but somehow did know John Able and was introduced to John's wife as Billy The Kid, then what was Oliver P. Roberts doing portraying himself as Billy in the early 1900's? "
Glad you brought that up. There is conclusive proof that Oliver P. Roberts was the son of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson. There is also proof that he was born 26 August 1879 in Sebastian County, Arkansas. There is also proof that Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson lived in Van Zandt County, Texas, when the 1910 census was recorded. There is also proof that O. P. Roberts married Anna Lee in Van Zandt County in 1909. Oliver P. Roberts and Anna were recorded in the 1910 census of Van Zandt County. They were divorced 10 November 1910 in Van Zandt County. Oliver Roberts then married Mollie Brown 21 August 1912 in Van Zandt County. Oliver Roberts registered for the WWI draft in Little River County, Arkansas; nearest relative, Mollie Roberts. Oliver signed the WWI draft registration card as Oliver Pleasant Roberts.
Hard to believe Brushy Bill needed an alias. The only record of Billy the Kid was in the New Mexico trial records, where he was identified as William Bonney or William Antrim or Kid. Living under his claimed birth name of William Henry Roberts would seem to be safe enough. Strange that he chose to be married to Mollie Brown as Oliver Roberts.
Oliver P. Roberts and J. Frank Dalton like to play make-believe in their old age. J. Frank Dalton said I'll be the most famous western character, Jesse James, and sign an affidavit to that effect, and you can be Billy the Kid.
By the way, what happened to Oliver P. Roberts, son of Henry Oliver Roberts? He was in Van Zandt County in 1910 when he divorced Anna Lee?
Hope this helps.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Nov 5, 2016 19:50:25 GMT -5
"That is what Brett told me as well Wayne."
Perhaps Brett was better informed than his statement in the Acknowledgements section indicates. He credits William Tunstill for tracking down the descendants of Brushy Bill Roberts. Brushy Bill Roberts, previously known as Oliver P. Roberts, was married 4 times, but had no children. William Tunstill was successful in tracking down some of Oliver P. Roberts relatives. Tunstill corresponded with Eulaine Goff Haws, a granddaughter of Martha Roberts Heath, and Paul Emerson, a grandson of Martha Roberts Heath.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Wayne Land on Nov 6, 2016 0:03:21 GMT -5
"Hope this helps" is becoming a favorite saying of yours. Sounds like something you'd say to someone who "needs" help! Sounds like a bit of a put down to me. Not nice!
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Post by Ft. Sumner on Jul 16, 2017 0:09:52 GMT -5
Wayne you seem to have all the answers, here is one for you. Brushy sister and niece claim he was not billy the kid, explain this one.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 16, 2017 1:12:37 GMT -5
I don't know that "Brushy" ever had a sister or a niece but I'll assume you mean the sister and niece of Oliver P. Roberts. I don't know that the sister is on record for ever saying Brushy was not Billy. As for the niece, she would have no personal knowledge either way since Brushy had stepped into the alias of Oliver P. Roberts before she was born.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 16, 2017 20:53:31 GMT -5
Ft. Sumner, That’s a good question. If you believe Brushy Bill’s story, there is no indication that he had a sister or a niece.
If you doubt Brushy Bill’s story, genealogists have researched the life of Oliver P. Roberts, son of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson. He had 2 half-sisters, Samantha Belle and Martha Vada Roberts Heath; and 2 sisters, Mary Cordelia and Nora. Nora died when she was about 1.
Brushy Bill Roberts identified his stepmother as Elizabeth Ferguson. Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson was the mother of Oliver P. Roberts. Brushy Bill identified Martha Heath as his cousin. “Dudley Heath, who was married to Billy’s cousin Martha, was dubious. That’s not your brother, he told her.” p. 99, ABtK. Brushy Bill identified a half-sister of Oliver P. Roberts as his cousin.
There is indisputable proof that Geneva Roberts Pittmon, daughter of Thomas U. Roberts, was a niece of Oliver P. Roberts. Her letter to Joe Bowlin identified Brushy Bill Roberts as Oliver P. Roberts, born 26 August 1879. Brushy Bill, on his World War I registration card, said he was born 26 August.
I disagree with the statement that Brushy Bill assumed the alias of Oliver P. Roberts, for there is no evidence, credible or otherwise, that Oliver P. Roberts, son of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson vanished soon after the 1910 census was recorded.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 16, 2017 23:00:09 GMT -5
I'm sorry but the assertion there was "no evidence" that Oliver P. Roberts vanished is simply not true. Any evidence that indicates Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy The Kid is also evidence he was not the real Oliver P. Roberts and in turn is evidence that the real Oliver did indeed vanish. However, I suspect it was prior to 1910.
Geneva Pittmon grew up knowing Brushy as her uncle Ollie and had no reason to doubt it. The fact that she believed it doesn't make it true.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 17, 2017 18:02:40 GMT -5
Excellent examples of circular logic:
Brushy Bill said he married Mollie Brown. Oliver Roberts married Mollie Brown, therefore Oliver Roberts was an alias of Brushy Bill.
Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid because he admitted he was. Therefore, Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid.
However, that means it is necessary to disregard the Coroners Jury Report, an official record of the death of William Bonney. It is also necessary to believe the corpse was that of Billy Barlow, although no record of Billy Barlow has ever been found. It is also necessary to believe that his parents were J. H. Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn; his cousin was Ollie Roberts; and his half-brother was James Roberts, although no record of any of them has been found.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 17, 2017 20:08:05 GMT -5
Did you ever find any records of my Aunt Elsie Bee? Maybe I just made her up. Here's a hint. She was the daughter of my Grandfather William Lee Land. I'd be very interested in knowing if you can locate any records that she ever existed.
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