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Post by Mike Bilberry on Apr 18, 2019 0:19:15 GMT -5
Hunter, Although the death certificate and the cemetery marker both indicate that John C. Abel was born in 1853, that birth year is not consistent with information found in census records. In the 1910 census of El Paso County, John’s birth year was approximately 1860; in the 1900 census of Taylor County, his birth was July 1860; in the 1881 census of Uvalde County, his birth year was approximately 1860; in the 1870 census of Travis County, his birth year was approximately 1860.. Martile Bilberry Ables father John C Bilberry had a ranch between Mayhill and Cloudcroft NM. John C Bilberry was good friends with Billy the Kid and he rode with Billy and went by the name Black John. John C Bilberry was instrumental in helping the Texas Rangers settle the range wRs in San Saba Texas caused by the San Saba mob. NN has a very corrupt government in this era and of time. Billy was swept up in this by circumstance over the murder of Tunstall . The Lincoln Co war was similar to the Texas range wars I. San Saba Texas. My family moved to Mayhill after John C Bilberry come back to Rexas Texas and told them about the area around Lincoln County NM. Martile has been in Lincoln longer than historians ever new. Her family traveled to Pecos Tx for supplies and visited El Paso for supplies. This is only part of Martile’s story the Billy the Kid historians didn’t check out. She was of very sound mind when she gave her testimony and signed a notorized affidavit.
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Post by Mike Bilberry on Apr 18, 2019 0:25:29 GMT -5
Martile’s claim that William Bonney visited with the Able family before and after Pat Garrett supposedly killed him in New Mexico is not credible. John C. Abel lived in Uvalde County, TX, in 1880; John C. Abel and Martelia Bilberry Henderson were married in 1898. I found the 1880 record for a John C Abel in Uvalde, Texas. (ABEL and not ABLE) Even with the census taken in Uvalde, Texas in 1880, it is still possible that he knew the Kid, working on ranches and on cattle drives through out the area. The Affadavit states that Mr. John C. Able, the husband of this affiant knew Wm. Bonney years before around Pecos, Texas, where the group of friends had a picture taken made in 1880, which picture is a good likeness of Wm. Bonney; that Wm. Bonney visited with the Able Family before and after the time it was said Pat Garrett killed him in New Mexico ..." Able Family living in Uvalde, Texas would be his father John, mother Nancy and son, John C. Able. Can you imagine the census takers job in the 1800s? It's a wonder anything is correct. John C AblesView Attachment
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Post by Mike Bilberry on Apr 18, 2019 0:28:51 GMT -5
I found the 1880 record for a John C Abel in Uvalde, Texas. (ABEL and not ABLE) Even with the census taken in Uvalde, Texas in 1880, it is still possible that he knew the Kid, working on ranches and on cattle drives through out the area. The Affadavit states that Mr. John C. Able, the husband of this affiant knew Wm. Bonney years before around Pecos, Texas, where the group of friends had a picture taken made in 1880, which picture is a good likeness of Wm. Bonney; that Wm. Bonney visited with the Able Family before and after the time it was said Pat Garrett killed him in New Mexico ..." Able Family living in Uvalde, Texas would be his father John, mother Nancy and son, John C. Able. Can you imagine the census takers job in the 1800s? It's a wonder anything is correct. John C AblesView Attachment
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Post by Mike Bilberry on Apr 18, 2019 1:06:28 GMT -5
Hi Mike, Are you any kin or know Jay Bilberry? I have done research of the Bilberry and Abel family and have visited with Jay. I also know a man that is kin to the Abel family. I would like to visit with you about the family. I have some pictures you might like to have if you don't already have them. nmjames I’d like to visit with you too. I have a cousin that has a photo taken around 1912 of her grandpas family and Billy the kids in the photo.
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Post by nmjames on Apr 18, 2019 7:20:25 GMT -5
Hello Mike,
If you can PM me and tell me how to contact you, I would like to visit with you. I need to get to work and will check back later today.
Thanks, nmjames
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Post by clydec on Apr 21, 2019 11:40:53 GMT -5
Hi Mike, Are you any kin or know Jay Bilberry? I have done research of the Bilberry and Abel family and have visited with Jay. I also know a man that is kin to the Abel family. I would like to visit with you about the family. I have some pictures you might like to have if you don't already have them. nmjames I’d like to visit with you too. I have a cousin that has a photo taken around 1912 of her grandpas family and Billy the kids in the photo. Mike, any chance of getting that photo posted up here on the board? That would be a fabulous find. Mike, do you believe Brushy was the kid? If Martile knew him that well I doubt she was wrong about Brushy.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Apr 21, 2019 16:12:54 GMT -5
" If Martile knew him that well I doubt she was wrong about Brushy."
clydec, Martile was not 10 years old when Billy the Kid was killed in 1881. She lived in Lampasas County in June 1880 when the census was recorded. Did she ever see Billy the Kid? A newspaper article confirms that she met Brushy Bill.
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Post by clydec on Apr 21, 2019 16:35:11 GMT -5
" If Martile knew him that well I doubt she was wrong about Brushy." clydec, Martile was not 10 years old when Billy the Kid was killed in 1881. She lived in Lampasas County in June 1880 when the census was recorded. Did she ever see Billy the Kid? A newspaper article confirms that she met Brushy Bill. Yes, but if her family knew him at that time she would have as well. Also, her husband John Able did know the kid well. You may be wrong on this one.
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Post by jgaines on Apr 22, 2019 14:17:50 GMT -5
TTT , you do know that just because someone indicated they lived in a particular spot on a particular day, you aren't obligated to stay in that exact spot for the remainder of that day, that week, that month, that year, the rest of your life , and swear that you won't talk to anyone outside of your county ? Using the census to indicate you couldn't have known someone or been in contact with someone in a different area is just plain crazy. Good thing the Comanches didn't fill out a census report, you'd be rewriting history and deny that they covered 1000's of miles. Same with the Vikings, etc.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Apr 22, 2019 15:58:56 GMT -5
TTT , you do know that just because someone indicated they lived in a particular spot on a particular day, you aren't obligated to stay in that exact spot for the remainder of that day, that week, that month, that year, the rest of your life , and swear that you won't talk to anyone outside of your county ? Using the census to indicate you couldn't have known someone or been in contact with someone in a different area is just plain crazy. Good thing the Comanches didn't fill out a census report, you'd be rewriting history and deny that they covered 1000's of miles. Same with the Vikings, etc. jgaines, Your point is well made. I also know that census records are more reliable that hearsay. They are also more reliable that sworn affidavits with false information. Elbert DeWitt Travis, born over 10 years after Billy the Kid was killed, in a sworn affidavit, said that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. DeWitt had never seen Henry McCarty. Robert E. Lee, in a sworn affidavit, said the first time he saw Billy the Kid was in the summer of 1889, about 8 years after Pat Garrett killed Henry McCarty. Martelia Bilberry Abel, in a sworn affidavit, said that John C Abel brought Billy the Kid to their house one day, and she cooked a meal for him. Pat Garrett killed Henry McCarty in 1881. John C Abel and Martelia Bilberry Henderson were married in 1898 in Taylor County, Texas.
Not one of the fantastic claims made by Brushy Bill has been verified. His description of Lincoln County events closely resembles the account published in "The Saga of Billy the Kid", in 1926, which he could have read and repeated. No record has ever been found substantiating any of his unbelievable activities. Pinkerton detective? Anti horse thief association? Texas Ranger? Deputy U S Marshal? $10,000 for winning Cheyenne roundup? Captain of 106 men in Mexico? Rough rider in Cuba?
No credible record has ever been found of Brushy Bill Roberts or William Henry Roberts. Even his death certificate and first cemetery marker read "Ollie Roberts", a nickname for Oliver.
Brushy Bill did finally tell the truth when he registered for the WWI draft as Oliver Pleasant Roberts, born 26 August 1879. He did marry Mollie Brown, Loutecia Ballard, and Melinda Elizabeth "Lizzie" Allison. His ranch in Arkansas was 80 acres in Sevier County that he held for about 6 months.
If I missed some credible evidence proving Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid, please post it.
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Post by chivato88 on Apr 22, 2019 17:43:37 GMT -5
Bla bla bla bla same ol song again and again, nothing you say will ever change my mind , Brushy was Billie the Keed
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Post by Wayne Land on Apr 22, 2019 17:47:19 GMT -5
"Elbert DeWitt Travis, born over 10 years after Billy the Kid was killed, in a sworn affidavit, said that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. DeWitt had never seen Henry McCarty. Robert E. Lee, in a sworn affidavit, said the first time he saw Billy the Kid was in the summer of 1889, about 8 years after Pat Garrett killed Henry McCarty. Martelia Bilberry Abel, in a sworn affidavit, said that John C Abel brought Billy the Kid to their house one day, and she cooked a meal for him. Pat Garrett killed Henry McCarty in 1881. John C Abel and Martelia Bilberry Henderson were married in 1898 in Taylor County, Texas."
TTT,
All that is correct "only" if Brushy was not Billy The Kid. If he "was" truly the Kid, then all those statements are very possibly, even likely, true statements. For example, Travis' statement that Brushy was Billy was not based on a claim he had known him prior to 1881, so what does it matter if he was born 10 years later. His statement is not my reason for believing Brushy. Nor is it anyone else's that I know of. I won't go into the nauseating debate over the remainder of your post. We've covered it all before.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Apr 22, 2019 18:43:48 GMT -5
"All that is correct "only" IF Brushy was not Billy The Kid. IF he "was" truly the Kid, then all those statements are very possibly, even likely, true statements. "
If a bullfrog had wings..............
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Post by Wayne Land on May 4, 2019 23:37:17 GMT -5
Are suggesting all bullfrogs have wings or is it just one particular bullfrog? Maybe a mutant bullfrog? Hmmmm! Got me thinking now!
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Post by leeb on May 5, 2019 4:45:16 GMT -5
A teenage mutant ninja bullfrog
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