|
Lost tapes
Nov 25, 2015 14:57:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Mark on Nov 25, 2015 14:57:36 GMT -5
Where are the tapes now ? Is there any way or someone I contact to hear the tapes of brushey? I don't understand why anyone would hold this from the public if they really exist.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Nov 25, 2015 16:53:41 GMT -5
I believe the tapes are in the possession of a descendant of Melinda Roberts, Brushy's last wife. They have been reviewed, allegedly, by Brett Hall, a historian who wrote a book discussing what he heard on the tapes, and Frederic Bean, in doing research for a book. Frederic Bean reported many if not most of the tapes are falling apart from old age. He did extensive splicing and yet was not able to play all of them. Both Hall and Bean claimed to have viewed some remaining notebooks written by Brushy. Copies of a few pages from those notes are on display at the Billy The Kid museum in Hamilton, TX. I took photos of those.
A gentleman who claimed he owns the tapes now posted on the this board a few years ago claiming he was having the tapes restored and transferred to CD. He subsequently disappeared from the board and would not answer my efforts to contact him.
|
|
|
Lost tapes
Nov 26, 2015 22:01:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2015 22:01:02 GMT -5
Thank u for responding back .I'm really interested in Billy the kid and this forum is great. I also think brushey was the real deal just by reading the pro and cons .I'm extremely interested in more facts and knowledge .I'm new to this but willing now to investigte everything with your help and knowledge
|
|
|
Post by MissyS on Nov 29, 2015 23:05:08 GMT -5
There is a man named E.B. Mann a writer, he wrote an article in a Field & Stream magazine in the July, 1981 issue, it's an article about Billy The Kid and Brushy Bill, interestingly in that article E.B. Mann talked about those tapes, he said that in 1954 he was a director of the University of New Mexico press at that time and Sonnichsen and Morrison had came with manuscripts, documents, and a lot of material, and literally miles of tape recordings of Brushy Bill, anyway according to that article we know the tapes were there and there were a lot of tapes along with many other material at the University of New Mexico press in 1954, I'm wondering if the diaries or notebooks were also included? and I wonder if there's a chance some of that material could still be there possibly stored somewhere? I was just wondering if all the tapes and material was supposed to been given to Brushy's wife or a decendent but not all of it changed hands? If there was alot of material as he described then there may be a chance a bit of it could have been misplaced from that point?
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Dec 1, 2015 2:26:59 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken it was E.B. Mann who was in attendance at Brushy's meeting with Gov. Mabry. Mr. Mann reported he had spoken with an old fella who had made the claim Billy The Kid had spent the night in his camp while hiding out from the law on one occasion. Mann said he asked Brushy about that event and Brushy remembered the old fella and was able to provide details regarding the horse he was on that he couldn't have known unless he really was Billy. This all if my memory serves me correct. I don't even remember where I read all this and I may not have repeated it exactly right, but I'll try and find it again.
This is very interesting stuff about the University of New Mexico press. Someone needs to track this down.
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Dec 1, 2015 11:50:42 GMT -5
OK. I found the issue of Field and Stream available online and read the entire article. Mann doesn't say anything about his questioning of Brushy and the night spent camping with the sheep herder but I think you'll find the article very interesting and a nice read. Especially the last two paragraphs. Here's a link but you'll need to scroll down to page 104: books.google.com/books?id=Ewn0bxhvvbYC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=Field+and+Stream+July+1981&source=bl&ots=dLzLuZxYV4&sig=u42cy_Zxyg7LqNxDtkECGPEGshU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjg2qv2h7vJAhUGXB4KHRBrAiMQ6AEILzAC#v=onepage&q=Field%20and%20Stream%20July%201981&f=falseAnd here's the last two paragraphs: <<"But it is a persistent rumor in New Mexico that Deluvina Maxwell, years later, amended her story and said, "It wasn't Billy. I knew it wasn't; so did Pete; so did Garrett; so did the men on the jury. But we wanted to give Billy time to get away. The boy Pat Garrett killed was dead; burying him as Billy The Kid would end the hunt for Billy." It did just that. I asked a direct descendant of one of the jurymen about that verdict. He laughed; said he heard his father laugh about it, too. But he wouldn't make a direct statement, one way or the other. Or if he did, our bottle was too near empty for me to quote accurately. So, decide for yourself. Either way, it's a great story. And, either way, it could be true.>> Anyway, everyone should read the article. It's very interesting to read a description of the meeting with Mabry from someone who was actually there. Even though he doesn't discuss his own questioning of Brushy, the article does leave one with the impression he believed Brushy's story. This from a knowledgeable historian who actually met Brushy.
|
|
|
Post by montanas on Dec 1, 2015 12:31:59 GMT -5
Wayne, what photograph of Billy is the author referring to in the article that had been published twice before that showed him cleaned up?
|
|
|
Post by MissyS on Dec 1, 2015 15:35:25 GMT -5
I believe Brushy was treated very unfairly, if he had collapsed and was obviously too sick to be there, why wasn't the meeting rescheduled for a better time when Brushy was well and given another chance before stating he's not believed to be Billy The Kid? I would love to read the actual questions and the answers Brushy gave, was any of that meeting recorded? We are told Brushy couldn't answer some questions correctly, I dont know how anything Brushy had said at the time could be of any use? I know there were questions like how many girlfriends did he have when he was Billy? and Did he enjoy stealing livestock? but other than the unnecessary ones, I'd like to know what good ones were asked and did he get any of them right at all? I think it speaks volumes that E.B. Mann was present at that meeting hearing Brushy's questions and answers and still tilts toward believing Brushy. I don't believe Brushy was as absent-minded in that meeting as were led to believe, I think he was I'll, and I think it was used against him to discredit him, and I believe he must have shown credibility that were not subject to knowing about or hearing about. It's a shame that meeting was handled so poorly, and his illness wasn't a factor in the verdict. Montana there is a picture of Billy on the cover of the book Billy the Kid a date with destiny, I don't know if that's what he's referring to in that article because he says it's IN the books?, however that cover photo is a supposed Billy wearing chaps and holding a rope and sitting,the only place iv seen that photo is on that cover.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Aug 9, 2016 17:31:35 GMT -5
www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=brushy%20bill%20interview Here is a link to un-impressive interview between Brushy and an interviewer who I really wish would have been somebody else because he wasted too much time asking questions like "How do you spell Hico?" This is interesting because here Brushy Clearly says that J. Frank Dalton is Jesse James and from my understanding it is pretty doubtful that he was, maybe he was. Brushy does say he knew Jesse for 78 years and later he says Jesse stopped by when he was 7 and if you do the math, he was 7 and knew him for 78 years by 1949, which would put his birthday closer to 1859 than 1879 or 1868. Also this tape does give you an idea of how hard it was to understand him and communicate with him. I have to admit even tho, Texas Truth Teller is probably gonna kick my butt for this, but Brushy does sound more like a 90 year old man than he does a 70 year old man.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 9, 2016 22:39:32 GMT -5
mckinley, There is a photo of the bedridden J. Frank Dalton. At his bedside are Brushy Bill, who claimed to have been a member of the James gang (was Billy the Kid a member of the James gang?) and Colonel James R. Davis, 108, who said he was a deputy marshal in the Oklahoma Territory. Alabama, Texas and Virginia, Confederate Pensions, 1884-1958 Texas Pension Files Nos. 51111 to 52094 Pension File Nos. 51986 to 52015, Application Years 1915 to 1947 Microfilm page 580 The same photo can be seen at www.angelfire.com/nm/boybanditking/pageBrushy.html, but the image is not as sharp.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Aug 10, 2016 3:16:39 GMT -5
You know the newspapers don't ever get anything right, right? When Henry Walker interviewed him he didn't say anything about it. He didn't say anything about it on the recorded interview either. Nothing in Alias Billy the Kid about neither. What is this microfilm thing you're talking about? I'm gonna try to find a record of his court martial in the Spanish American War. By the way, I was reading Haw's book today, several years ago I tried to find the interview with Cyclone Denton where he says he worked with Billy on the Gila Ranch and then later in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show but as far as I can tell that interview does not exist-- I contacted the magazine company.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 10, 2016 21:58:32 GMT -5
mckinley412, The microfilm is accessible on Ancestry.com. Ancestry.com has Texas and Alabama pension records of some who said they served the confederate cause. J. Frank Dalton said he was a Missouri Partisan Ranger/Quantrill Guerrilla. There is a huge pension file for Frank Dalton, and the picture is only one page of many. You may have to be a subscriber to access the photograph, but I'll post the link interactive.ancestry.com/1677/32241_1220701439_2011-00522?pid=273188&backurl=http://search.ancestry.com//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DSna6481%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsln%3Ddalton%26gsln_x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1848%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msrpn__ftp%3DTexas,%2520USA%26msrpn%3D46%26msrpn_PInfo%3D5-%257C0%257C1652393%257C0%257C2%257C0%257C46%257C0%257C0%257C0%257C0%257C0%257C%26msrpn_x%3D1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3D1%26cp%3D0%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3D3y7%26pcat%3DMIL_PENSION%26h%3D273188%26recoff%3D8%26db%3DTexasConfederatePensions%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Sna6481&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=32241_1220701439_2011-00584 Newspapers are not the most reliable source. Maybe they reported what Brushy Bill said, maybe not. They did report he said he was 90. He was actually 70. Brushy Bill probably claimed he was a member of the James Gang because he was in New York City to support J. Frank Dalton's fairy tale that he was Jesse Woodson James. As a member of the James Gang, Brushy Bill might have thought that would make his testimony more credible. Brushy Bill told Morrison a lot of tall tales. The only unpublished credible facts provided by Brushy Bill to Morrison were the names of the 3 women that he married, and his ownership of land in southwest Arkansas. Let's see now. If Brushy Bill was not in the Rough Riders, there will be no court martial records. It's hard to find information about a ghost. Keep trying.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Aug 10, 2016 23:42:02 GMT -5
who do you think has told more falsehoods about Brushy? Lucas Speers? Cooper? Haws? Johnson? And as far as I know nobody knows if the court marshal trials took place, just like Haws thinks the Cyclone interview happened, just because somebody says it's so or because you think it is so, doesn't mean anything.... And one fact is you don't know if Brushy was the Kid or not,=YOU DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE- so instead of being the texas truth teller you should be the texas truth finder and keep words like 'probably' and 'might' out of your posts so much because you do not know and because you mostly talk about stuff you don't know about. Let's look it at like this, /.....let's see if there is no records before you assume there isn't. The biggest argument against Brushy is that he is the same guy of whose identity he said he stole. Who checked the Spanish/American War court martial records and why would you or I know that unless we checked them ourselves? You know the nuts this thing has brought out. Brushy wasn't as crazy as half of them...and that is simple common sense truth.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 11, 2016 15:40:27 GMT -5
mckinley412, Let me know when you find a court martial record that can definitely be identified as the court martial of Brushy Bill, and I will apologize.
|
|
|
Lost tapes
Sept 27, 2018 22:34:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mckinley412 on Sept 27, 2018 22:34:52 GMT -5
I looked for William Roberts and Oliver. I had to pay for several records. Is there a way to get a list of all court martials?
|
|