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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 4, 2015 16:54:09 GMT -5
"Would you continue to insist the Kentucky info was just coincidence, no matter how high the odds were? Or if you'd rather, answer this one posed a bit differently. "How high would the odds have to be, to convince you the Kentucky information was more than coincidence?"
The Kentucky info was just coincidence. As I have pointed out before, any competent genealogist knows that a single census entry is not proof, as is the case in the 1910 census.
No matter how high the theoretical odds you envision, the 1910 Kentucky info was nothing but a coincidence, although his fellow impostor, J. Frank Dalton, also claimed he was born in Kentucky after swearing in an affidavit he was born in Missouri.
You have yet to answer my questions: When did Oliver Pleasant Roberts disappear, and what happened to him? Surely you can conjure up 2 or 3 improbably scenarios. I don't expect any proof, for I know there is none.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jun 4, 2015 20:49:04 GMT -5
Just to clarify, being willing to admit the Kentucky entry was "not" just coincidence is not the same thing as saying it was factual data. It is entirely possible that Brushy made up that info and gave it to the census taker in 1910 and then used the same made up info with Morrison. However, if that is what happened I think the question must be asked, "Why Kentucky?"
As to your questions, I don't know when Oliver P. Roberts disappeared but my guess is sometime between 1908 and 1910. And obviously if he "disappeared" then I don't know what happened to him and probably no one else did either. Otherwise it wouldn't have been a "disappearance".
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 5, 2015 13:41:13 GMT -5
Kentucky does appear as the birthplace of Brushy Bill's parents in the 1910 census. The birthplace of the mother of Oliver Pleasant Roberts is shown as Arkansas in the 1880, 1900, and 1920 census; the birthplace of the father of Oliver Pleasant Roberts is shown as Texas in the 1880, 1900, and 1920 census.
Your theory that Brushy Bill's parents' birthplaces were accurately reported as Kentucky in the 1910 census by accident is not based on logic. Brushy reported the correct birthplaces of his parents as Texas and Arkansas in the 1920 and 1930 census. To imply that Brushy reverted to providing the birthplaces of the parents of Oliver Pleasant Roberts to avoid detection as Billy the Kid defies reality. It was widely believed that BtK had been killed in 1881. There are no publications that suggest the parents of BtK were born in Kentucky, other than those based on the stories told by Brushy Bill. Brushy was living under the name of Oliver P. Roberts. Brushy was married. Brushy was reporting his age as many years younger than the commonly accepted age of BtK. Brushy was living over 600 miles from Lincoln, NM. Brushy was reporting his occupation as farmer or farm laborer.
Many instances can be found where an individual is enumerated in multiple census years, and the birthplace is the same for all census years save one.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jun 5, 2015 16:47:23 GMT -5
I think we're about to reach the point where, as my father use to say, we've "run it in the ground and barked at it". But what the heck? I'll respond.
Brushy Bill was, I believe, the real Billy The Kid. He had a death sentence hanging over him and no matter how far from Lincoln he was, and no matter how many people believed he was dead, he still would not have wanted to take any chances on being discovered. Letting that happen could mean death. In such a situation, why wouldn't he go ahead and report his parents' birthplaces in keeping with those of the real Oliver? It didn't take a whole lot of effort, scheming or planning. He gave Oliver's info in 1920, etc. Why not in 1910? It's pretty simple really. In the later censuses he's thinking "OK, I'm pretending to be Oliver, I should probably give them Oliver's parents' birthplace, just to be safe". Fortunately for us seekers of the truth, back in 1910, the first time he answered the census as Oliver, it had not yet occurred to him that giving his real parents' info could be dangerous. Possibly in 1910 he didn't even know Oliver's info yet, (he had not been Oliver for very long) so he just gave his own as a bit of a "knee jerk reaction".
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 12, 2015 17:29:26 GMT -5
Henry McCarty was known locally in New Mexico, prior to the Lincoln County war. He burst onto the national scene with his participation in the Lincoln County war. He became an historical figure in 1881 when Governor Lew Wallace of New Mexico offered a bounty for his capture. He was subsequently reported killed by Sheriff Pat Garrett in 1881. Various newspapers in New Mexico and elsewhere carried the news of his death.
Henry McCarty was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. They were married 15 June 1851 in the Church of St. Peter in New York City. Henry was born 17 September 1859 in New York City and christened 28 September 1859 at the church where his parents had been married at 16 Barclay Street in Manhattan. The McCarty family is enumerated in the 1860 census of New York, New York City, Ward 1, District 1. (microfilm page 176, line 3) Note: surname incorrectly spelled as McCarthy.
Patrick McCarthy (sic), male, age 30, day laborer, born in Ireland Cath'n, female, age 29, born in Ireland Bridget, female, age 7, born in New York Henry, male, age 1, born in New York
Their other child, Joseph McCarty, was born 14 October 1863 in New York City. He was known for most of his life as Joseph Antrim after he assumed his step-father's surname. In the 1880 census, Joseph was a miner living in Silverton, San Juan County, Colorado (microfilm page 367C, line 12). In the 1920 census, he was living in Denver (microfilm page 83A, line 13). He died 24 November 1930 in Denver, Colorado. No information about Bridget McCarty has been found after the 1860 census, or about Patrick McCarty after he was listed in the 1863 New York City directory living at 210 Greene Street.
Catherine McCarty, widow of Patrick, was listed in the 1864 New York City Directory living at 210 Greene Street.
The next documented record of Catherine McCarty was after the McCarty family arrived in Wichita, Kansas. On 12 September 1870, Mrs. Catherine McCarty was given title to a vacant lot in Wichita. On 25 March 1871, Mrs. McCarty paid $200 for 160 acres of land. Mrs. McCarty disposed of all her Wichita holdings 25 August 1871.
The last documented record of the McCarty family is in New Mexico. Catherine McCarty and William H. Antrim were married 1 March 1873 in Santa Fe, New Mexico Territory. Among the witnesses were her two sons, Henry and Joseph.
An article in the Arizona Citizen, 25 August 1877, reports the shooting and subsequent death of F. P. Cahill by Henry Antrim alias "Kid" near Camp Grant, Arizona Territory. That location is in present day Graham County, Arizona.
William Henry Harrison Antrim was born 1 December 1842 in Huntsville, Madison County, Indiana, and died 10 December 1922 in Adelaida, San Luis Obispo County, California. He is buried in the San Miguel District Cemetery, San Miguel, San Luis Obispo County. He enlisted in the Union Army, 54th Indiana Infantry, in June 1863, and was discharged September 1863. In 1900, William Antrim, a quartz miner, was living in Mogollon, Socorro County, New Mexico (microfilm page 73B, line 70). He filed for a pension 15 August 1894. He responded to a 1915 request for information from the Bureau of Pensions. William stated that his wife had died of tuberculosis in Silver City; that they had no children; that her 1st husband was McCarty who died in New York City; and that she had 2 sons - one had died in the eighties (Henry was killed by Pat Garrett in 1881), and William had not heard from the other in 14 years (Joseph was living in Colorado).
Catherine McCarty Antrim died 16 September 1874 in Silver City, New Mexico Territory, and was buried in a cemetery there. Ireland is shown as Catherine's place of birth in the 1860 census. Ireland is also indicated as Catherine's place of birth in the 1882 book, "The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid", by Pat Garrett. In the 1880 census, Joseph Antrim reported that the birthplace of his mother was England. Ireland did not become an independent nation until 1922.
********* Brushy Bill claimed he was born on the last hour of the last day of 1859 in Buffalo Gap, Texas, a non-existent community beyond the 1859 Texas frontier. The non-existent parents, James "Wild Henry" Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn, must have had a calendar and a timepiece in their dugout or log cabin to record the exact time of birth.
An amazing the number of authors have fallen for the tall tales spun by a master storyteller. There's even a book published in 2014, "Billy the Kid: An Autobiography". Since it is an autobiography, maybe Billy the Kid is still alive at age 155.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 13, 2015 1:18:13 GMT -5
There is no obvious connection between the McCarthys you refer to in New York and Catherine McCarty in Silver City. There were many other Catherine McCarty's in the US at that time. There is logical reason to assume that Billy The Kid's real name was William Henry rather than just Henry. Where's the William on that record from New York City? Plus, you are wrong about Buffalo Gap. In the first place, Brushy said he was born in the "area known as" Buffalo Gap. He didn't say it was a city at that time. That area was known as the Buffalo Gap many years prior to 1859. And don't even try to suggest no child could have been born there in 1859. Children have a way of getting born wherever their mother is located when she goes into labor. And finally, there absolutely was a way to keep track of the day of the year and the time of day before everyone owned a calendar and a smart phone. Maybe Brushy was told that by Catherine or maybe he embellished that. Either way, it doesn't prove he was a fraud.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 16, 2015 13:39:10 GMT -5
One of the most damaging statements about Brushy Bill's claim to be Billy the Kid is found on page 97 of "Alias Billy the Kid", by C. L. Sonnichsen & William V. Morrison, in the chapter, "The Tangled Web". Brushy Bill had several notebooks, and in those notebooks Brushy described his life as he wanted it to be told. Sonnichsen thought Brushy was trying to lay a false trail. The tale Brushy told is a wild and wooly narrative, describing Brushy's travels throughout the West, serving as a peace officer, soldiering, ranching, running a rodeo show, and participating in the Anti-Horse Thief Association. Brushy's indicated age was 8 years too young to have participated in the Lincoln County War. Brushy Bill provided roughly the same story to William V. Morrison as fact, but altered his approximate birth date to 1859, the same birth date as Henry McCarty.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 13, 2016 13:50:23 GMT -5
Texas Truth Teller, It is very likely that his parents did own a calendar and time piece. Such items were not uncommon back then. They were invented a long time ago and everyone has been using them ever since. However, if they did not record his birth that is another story altogether. I am sure it would have been easy to remember because it was on New Year's Eve, the last day of the year, and during the last hour and plus having a baby is kind of a big deal to some parents. I am certain they would have remembered it. And from everything I have ever read about Buffalo Gap, not counting what Brushy debunkers write, but based on everything else I have read, it seems Buffalo Gap was around years before 1859 and how the rumor got started that it wasn't is one of the great unsolved mysteries. And there was one final thought. How strange would it be if he really wasn't Billy the Kid? What if he really was Oliver Pleasant Roberts? How ironic if after years of being a dirt farmer and being born and raised in Arkansas, he decided to start reporting his place of birth as Texas in not only the 1910 census but the 1930 census, and 1940 too. What was a farmer from Arkansas trying to hide? And why change only the place of birth and not your name?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 13, 2016 22:35:03 GMT -5
mckinley412, These are the only events in Brushy Bill's story that can be verified with credible records. He married Mollie Brown 21 August 1912 in Van Zandt County, Texas. He purchased 80 acres of land in Sevier County, Arkansas, 23 February 1918. He and Mollie sold 80 acres of land in Sevier County, Arkansas, 21 August 1918. He registered for the WWI draft in Little River County, Arkansas, 12 September 1918. He buried Mollie in Pauley Cemetery, Cerrogordo, Little River County, in 1919. He was recorded as a widower in the 1920 census of Van Zandt County, Texas, boarding with the Murff family. He registered for the WWI draft in Little River County, Arkansas. He married Lutecia Ballard. He and Lutecia were recorded in the 1930 census of Van Zandt County, Texas. He and Lutecia lived in Gregg County, Texas, in 1935. He and Lutecia lived in Gregg County, Texas, when the 1940 census was recorded He and J. Frank Dalton were photographed with gunbelts, probably on the ranch of DeWitt Travis, about 1942. He signed Lutecia's death certificate 22 June 1944. He married Melinda Allison 14 January 1945 in Hamilton County, Texas. He was in Dora, New Mexico, on 1 April 1949, when he wrote to Uncle Kit Carson in Roswell. He was interviewed by William Morrison in Jun 1949 in Hico, Texas. He was photographed with Andrew Jackson "Ozark Jack" Berlin in Stanton, Missouri, 4 September 1949. He attended J. Frank Dalton's 102nd birth day party in Stanton, Missouri, 5 September 1949. He and Colonel James R. Davis were photographed beside the bedridden J. Frank Dalton in New York City, 10 January 1950. He and William V. Morrison met with New Mexico Governor Mabry 29 November 1950. He died 27 December 1950 in Hico, Hamilton County, Texas. His Texas death certificate has a birth date of 31 December 1868. His first grave marker had a birth date of 12-31-1868. "And from everything I have ever read about Buffalo Gap, not counting what Brushy debunkers write, but based on everything else I have read, it seems Buffalo Gap was around years before 1859 and how the rumor got started that it wasn't is one of the great unsolved mysteries." You are correct. The topographical feature, the buffalo gap in the Callahan Divide, has been there for hundreds of years. Not so the Buffalo Gap community. www.texasescapes.com/TexasTowns/Buffalo-Gap-Texas.htm"Town of Buffalo Gap Probably named for the pass in Callahan Divide (mountains) crossed by thousands of buffalo that once inhabited this area. Besides providing the native Apache and Comanche Indians with food, buffaloes drew the first white hunters here, about 1874. First homes in present town were dugouts of buffalo hunters. The community began to grow in 1878 when it was named county seat and was located on the western cattle trail. In 1883, however, the new railroad town of Abilene became county seat and Buffalo Gap, like so many small Texas towns, lost prestige." My great-grandfather, Israel Clements, with his family, was the second or third family to settle in Brown County. That was in 1858. Taylor County is the second county west of Brown County and was beyond the frontier in 1858. Indians raided the Clements homestead in Brown County as late as 1868 or 1869. Other early settlers of Brown County, W. C. Anderson, J. N. Anderson, and D. Q. Anderson joined the Texas State Troops to protect the settlers from Indian raids during the Civil War since the U. S. Army had vacated the forts and been recalled to fight for the Union. Strange that J. H. Roberts would leave his family and go off to war and leave them unprotected. Hope this helps.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 14, 2016 1:16:25 GMT -5
I see, the first white people were there about 1874 it says, well maybe Brushy wasn't really Billy the Kid. But it also says it was the perfect location to hunt Buffalo's in the 60's. And it says it's been around since 1857. Very confusing. But there is a 1880 and 1900 census showing Olover Roberts was born to Henry in Arkansas and he couldn't read and write and then later the records show he was born in Texas.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 14, 2016 15:52:51 GMT -5
"But there is a 1880 and 1900 census showing Olover Roberts was born to Henry in Arkansas and he couldn't read and write and then later the records show he was born in Texas."
mckinley412, You are correct. The 1880 and the 1900 census records show his birthplace as Arkansas. The 1910, 1920, 1930, and 1940 census records show his birthplace as Texas. The 1900 census record shows he could not read or write. The 1910 census record shows he could read and write. His signature on the WWI draft registration card indicates he could write his name.
His birth year of approximately 1879 is consistent in the 1880, 1900, 1910, 1920, and 1930 census records. It jumps to 1870 in the 1940 census, the same range as the birth year of 1868 he once claimed.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 14, 2016 17:28:56 GMT -5
And then he also claimed 1861 to Henry J. Walker. I believe 1861 is the actual date Frederick Nolan guesses the Kid was born, though he says Brushy is 'pathetic old phony' even though Brushy guessed the date of 1861 during the time he was claiming to be Billy the Kid years before the world renown Billy expert came along and guessed the same year. This also shows that Brushy was not well read up on the subject of Billy the Kid but that he was real good at making stuff up. He knew things that hadn't been discovered yet when Sonnichsen made his book. According to Nolan's analysis of the escape, Brushy's version is the only one that fits, good guess again. He knew he had to be exactly 5'8. He said he didn't go to get the rifle off Brady and Sederwall said Brady still had his rifle, etc.etc.etc.etc But he messed up on one little detail, he forgot to change his age in the censuses so that later people would be able to believe him when he said he was Billy the Kid. Either that or maybe he didn't want people to know Maybe Joe Hines just wanted to get his own name in a book. And what if Brushy is a liar?? Billy the Kid lied too, didn't he? Maybe the real Billy the Kid was a pathetic phony just like Brushy Bill. Idk, Maybe, he was never born anywhere, maybe he'll never die either, maybe he could turn himself into a coyote and disappear like Lou Diamond Phillips says he could.
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Post by Elwood on Apr 30, 2020 21:16:26 GMT -5
Henry McCarty was known locally in New Mexico, prior to the Lincoln County war. He burst onto the national scene with his participation in the Lincoln County war. He became an historical figure in 1881 when Governor Lew Wallace of New Mexico offered a bounty for his capture. He was subsequently reported killed by Sheriff Pat Garrett in 1881. Various newspapers in New Mexico and elsewhere carried the news of his death. Henry McCarty was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. They were married 15 June 1851 in the Church of St. Peter in New York City. Henry was born 17 September 1859 in New York City and christened 28 September 1859 at the church where his parents had been married at 16 Barclay Street in Manhattan. The McCarty family is enumerated in the 1860 census of New York, New York City, Ward 1, District 1. (microfilm page 176, line 3) Note: surname incorrectly spelled as McCarthy. Patrick McCarthy (sic), male, age 30, day laborer, born in Ireland Cath'n, female, age 29, born in Ireland Bridget, female, age 7, born in New York Henry, male, age 1, born in New York Their other child, Joseph McCarty, was born 14 October 1863 in New York City. He was known for most of his life as Joseph Antrim after he assumed his step-father's surname. In the 1880 census, Joseph was a miner living in Silverton, San Juan County, Colorado (microfilm page 367C, line 12). In the 1920 census, he was living in Denver (microfilm page 83A, line 13). He died 24 November 1930 in Denver, Colorado. No information about Bridget McCarty has been found after the 1860 census, or about Patrick McCarty after he was listed in the 1863 New York City directory living at 210 Greene Street. Catherine McCarty, widow of Patrick, was listed in the 1864 New York City Directory living at 210 Greene Street. The next documented record of Catherine McCarty was after the McCarty family arrived in Wichita, Kansas. On 12 September 1870, Mrs. Catherine McCarty was given title to a vacant lot in Wichita. On 25 March 1871, Mrs. McCarty paid $200 for 160 acres of land. Mrs. McCarty disposed of all her Wichita holdings 25 August 1871. The last documented record of the McCarty family is in New Mexico. Catherine McCarty and William H. Antrim were married 1 March 1873 in Santa Fe, New Mexico Territory. Among the witnesses were her two sons, Henry and Joseph. An article in the Arizona Citizen, 25 August 1877, reports the shooting and subsequent death of F. P. Cahill by Henry Antrim alias "Kid" near Camp Grant, Arizona Territory. That location is in present day Graham County, Arizona. William Henry Harrison Antrim was born 1 December 1842 in Huntsville, Madison County, Indiana, and died 10 December 1922 in Adelaida, San Luis Obispo County, California. He is buried in the San Miguel District Cemetery, San Miguel, San Luis Obispo County. He enlisted in the Union Army, 54th Indiana Infantry, in June 1863, and was discharged September 1863. In 1900, William Antrim, a quartz miner, was living in Mogollon, Socorro County, New Mexico (microfilm page 73B, line 70). He filed for a pension 15 August 1894. He responded to a 1915 request for information from the Bureau of Pensions. William stated that his wife had died of tuberculosis in Silver City; that they had no children; that her 1st husband was McCarty who died in New York City; and that she had 2 sons - one had died in the eighties (Henry was killed by Pat Garrett in 1881), and William had not heard from the other in 14 years (Joseph was living in Colorado). Catherine McCarty Antrim died 16 September 1874 in Silver City, New Mexico Territory, and was buried in a cemetery there. Ireland is shown as Catherine's place of birth in the 1860 census. Ireland is also indicated as Catherine's place of birth in the 1882 book, "The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid", by Pat Garrett. In the 1880 census, Joseph Antrim reported that the birthplace of his mother was England. Ireland did not become an independent nation until 1922. ********* Brushy Bill claimed he was born on the last hour of the last day of 1859 in Buffalo Gap, Texas, a non-existent community beyond the 1859 Texas frontier. The non-existent parents, James "Wild Henry" Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn, must have had a calendar and a timepiece in their dugout or log cabin to record the exact time of birth. An amazing the number of authors have fallen for the tall tales spun by a master storyteller. There's even a book published in 2014, "Billy the Kid: An Autobiography". Since it is an autobiography, maybe Billy the Kid is still alive at age 155. ------ Reply by Elwood on April 30, 2020 - Updated info from documents: While it is often accepted that Billy the Kid was born as "Henry McCarty" in New York City, there is a theory that he was born on September 17, 1859, and was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. There is a 1851 New York City church marriage record for Catherine Devine and Patrick, as well as a Baptismal record for their son in 1859. Let's look at what the documents reveal. Certificate of Baptism Church of St. Peter Barclay Street, New York This is to Certify That Patrick Henry McCarthy Child of Patrick and Catherine Devine born in NY on the 17 Day of September 1859 Was Baptized on the 28 Day of September 1859 According to the Rite of Roman Catholic Church by the Rev. J. Conron the Sponsors being Thomas Cooney and Mary Clark, as appears from the Baptismal Register of this Church. There is also a 1914 death certificate for Patrick McCarthy from the New York City Municipal Deaths: Name: Patrick McCarthy Event Type: Death Event Date: 30 September 1914 Event Place: Bronx, New York, New York Gender: Male Age: 51 Marital Status: Married Race: White Occupation: Truckdriver Birth Date: 17 October 1862 Birthplace: United States Burial Date: 1 October 1914 Cemetery: Calvary Cemetery Father's Name: Patrick McCarthy Father's Birthplace: Ireland Mother's Name: Catherine Devine Mother's Birthplace: Ireland It seems that both the Baptismal record and the death certificate are for the same person born as "Patrick Henry McCarthy". The birth date on the death certificate is somewhat off, being 17 October 1862 vs 17 September 1859. However, the various Federal and New York State census records show there is some variation in Patrick McCarthy's birth year. The New York State census was taken in between the decades; such as 1865 and 1875. Either "Patrick Henry McCarthy" is NOT the real Billy the Kid, or the Kid actually did survive the July 1881 "death" and lived until 1914, where he died in the Bronx, New York. Were there two different men named "Patrick Henry McCarthy" that were the son of Catherine Devine and her husband, Patrick? For those who believe the September 1859 birth information that is currently on the wikipedia page for Billy the Kid, these two vital records may provide something to consider.
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Post by Elwood on Apr 30, 2020 22:03:28 GMT -5
Updated info from documents:
While it is often accepted that Billy the Kid was born as "Henry McCarty" in New York City, there is a theory that he was born on September 17, 1859, and was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. There is a 1851 New York City church marriage record for Catherine Devine and Patrick, as well as a Baptismal record for their son in 1859. Let's look at what the documents reveal.
Certificate of Baptism
Church of St. Peter
Barclay Street, New York
This is to Certify
That Patrick Henry McCarthy
Child of Patrick
and Catherine Devine
born in NY
on the 17 Day of September 1859
Was Baptized
on the 28 Day of September 1859
According to the Rite of Roman Catholic Church
by the Rev. J. Conron
the Sponsors being Thomas Cooney
and Mary Clark, as appears
from the Baptismal Register of this Church.
There is also a 1914 death certificate for Patrick McCarthy from the New York City Municipal Deaths:
Name: Patrick McCarthy
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 30 September 1914
Event Place: Bronx, New York, New York
Gender: Male
Age: 51
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Occupation: Truck driver
Birth Date: 17 October 1862
Birthplace: United States
Burial Date: 1 October 1914
Cemetery: Calvary Cemetery
Father's Name: Patrick McCarthy
Father's Birthplace: Ireland
Mother's Name: Catherine Devine
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
It seems that both the Baptismal record and the death certificate are for the same person born as "Patrick Henry McCarthy". The birth date on the death certificate is somewhat off, being 17 October 1862 vs 17 September 1859. However, the various Federal and New York State census records show there is some variation in Patrick McCarthy's birth year. The New York State census was taken in between the decades; such as 1865 and 1875.
Either "Patrick Henry McCarthy" is NOT the real Billy the Kid, or the Kid actually did survive the July 1881 "death" and lived until 1914, where he died in the Bronx, New York. Were there two different men named "Patrick Henry McCarthy" that were the son of Catherine Devine and her husband, Patrick?
For those who believe the September 1859 birth information that is currently on the wikipedia page for Billy the Kid, these two vital records may provide something to consider.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 5, 2020 17:44:24 GMT -5
Updated info from documents:
While it is often accepted that Billy the Kid was born as "Henry McCarty" in New York City, there is a theory that he was born on September 17, 1859, and was the son of Patrick McCarty and Catherine Devine. There is a 1851 New York City church marriage record for Catherine Devine and Patrick, as well as a Baptismal record for their son in 1859. Let's look at what the documents reveal. Certificate of Baptism
Church of St. Peter Barclay Street, New York This is to Certify That Patrick Henry McCarthy Child of Patrick and Catherine Devineborn in NY on the 17 Day of September 1859 Was Baptized on the 28 Day of September 1859 According to the Rite of Roman Catholic Church by the Rev. J. Conron the Sponsors being Thomas Cooney and Mary Clark, as appears from the Baptismal Register of this Church. There is also a 1914 death certificate for Patrick McCarthy from the New York City Municipal Deaths: Name: Patrick McCarthy Event Type: Death Event Date: 30 September 1914Event Place: Bronx, New York, New York Gender: Male Age: 51 Marital Status: Married Race: White Occupation: Truck driver Birth Date: 17 October 1862 Birthplace: United States Burial Date: 1 October 1914 Cemetery: Calvary Cemetery Father's Name: Patrick McCarthy Father's Birthplace: Ireland Mother's Name: Catherine Devine
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland It seems that both the Baptismal record and the death certificate are for the same person born as " Patrick Henry McCarthy". The birth date on the death certificate is somewhat off, being 17 October 1862 vs 17 September 1859. However, the various Federal and New York State census records show there is some variation in Patrick McCarthy's birth year. The New York State census was taken in between the decades; such as 1865 and 1875. Either "Patrick Henry McCarthy" is NOT the real Billy the Kid, or the Kid actually did survive the July 1881 "death" and lived until 1914, where he died in the Bronx, New York. Were there two different men named "Patrick Henry McCarthy" that were the son of Catherine Devine and her husband, Patrick? For those who believe the September 1859 birth information that is currently on the wikipedia page for Billy the Kid, these two vital records may provide something to consider. Elwood, that is worth considering.
It is also worth mentioning the research of Jack DeMattos, published in the January 1880 edition of "The Real West". He included information about this Patrick McCarthy/McCarty family from New York City directories as well as the image of the 1860 census of p. 176 of the 1st ward of New York City. 1858-1859 New York City directory, p. 499. Patrick McCarty, laborer, 218 Greene Street 1860 New York City directory, p. 533. Patrick McCarty, 210 Greene Street 1863 New York City directory, p. 541. Patrick MCCARTHY, 210 Greene Street 1864 New York City directory, p. 537. Catherine McCarty, widow of Patrick, 210 Greene Street
Very little can be confirmed about the life of Billy the Kid.
The paper trail of Brushy Bill Roberts is a mile wide, from this birth in Bates Township, Sebastian County in 1879, to his death in Hamilton County in 1950. Brushy Bill revealed his real name, Oliver Pleasant Roberts, and date of birth, 26 August 1878 (sic) when he registered for the WWI draft in Little River County, AR.
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