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Post by nmjames on May 3, 2013 22:19:22 GMT -5
Wayne,
Just a quick update on Sedillo / Tully. I had emailed a lady that I know who should be kin to Josephine Sanchez. When I first made contact with her, she didn't remember Josephine but said she would check with the family. She did email me back and is kin. She also gave me the name of a grandson of Sistos Sedillos and where he lives. He is up in age so I am not going to bother him as I feel I have enough information on them. As I have stated before, The Sedillos girl was born in 1874. I think she was to young to date Billy the Kid and besides that, the lady's great grandmother was at Billy the Kid funeral.
I also got to checking into Jim Tully. This one was a shock to me as it turned out the lady in San Patricio that I know, is the daughter of Jim Tully. We had a good visit and just let me say I haven't found anything new to change my mind about Brushy Bill.
Research was slow for awhile until about March. I have been working on some new leads that has to do with Oliver Lee and the Clements came up. Nothing on Brushy Bill yet but one never knows. However I was in Alamogordo doing some reasearch and a lady told me about a new book that came out late last year. (August 2012) I got the book and it looks like Brushy was not Billy the Kid. I will let you get the book and read it. The name of the Book is An Outlaw Called Kidd, The Reality of Billy the Kid. (Someone else was-but you need to read the book).
nmjames
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Post by Wayne Land on May 4, 2013 17:50:49 GMT -5
nmjames,
Thanks for the heads up on the book. I purchased a kindle version and just finished reading it. I found it interesting but I still believe Billy The Kidd as these witnesses reported meeting after 1881 and Brushy Bill Roberts were one and the same. And thanks for sharing more on what you've found about Josephine Sanchez. Again though, if she didn't really meet Brushy and have that conversation about who he dated, then who made up that story. I don't believe Brett Hall made it up and I don't believe Jim Tully made it up. I believe Josephine herself did indeed relate the story and I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise.
Wayne
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CannonballMountainIdaho
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Post by CannonballMountainIdaho on May 5, 2013 16:55:35 GMT -5
Back in the late 1940s I wrote a theme paper on Billy the kid. As I recall, much of what is said now was said then, except Billy was hardly regarded as an outlaw, he became involved in a range war, and there was no way to find an impartial judge to resolve the conflict. My investigation provided a very different description of Billy's death though. The book claimed Billy was hiding out but becoming very hungry. Billy approached a remote hermit's cabin with his eye on the smoke house. Billy made a bit too much noise and the hermit came out with his shotgun. Upon how armed Billy was the hermit blasted him with the shotgun. My reading further indicated that the story about Billy being shot by Garrett was fabricated by New York's "Police Gazette" who had a reputation for unlicensed fabricating to make a story better.
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CannonballMountainIdaho
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Post by CannonballMountainIdaho on May 5, 2013 20:40:37 GMT -5
This grip requires a separate entry. I first saw that photo of the armed Billy the kid in the 60s or 70s. At that time it was said to be a new discovery. Looking at it I am convinced its someone drunk and clowning. First, in those days everyone really tried to look their best for this rare experience, being photographed, a once in a lifetime experience. Second, all references to the kid seem to say he carried two Colt 1877 models, double action .38 colt calibers. I can accept his carrying only one gun, but the one in the picture looks to me like an 1873 Colt, or possibly an older cap and ball, but certainly a pistol with a square butt. Take a look, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_M1877Now the picture in question, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Billy_the_Kid_corrected.jpg' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_M1877en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Billy_the_Kid_corrected.jpg
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CannonballMountainIdaho
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Post by CannonballMountainIdaho on May 5, 2013 21:16:55 GMT -5
wayne, I'm real sorry about what happened in the preceding post. I had trouble pulling those addresses in and somehow messed up.
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Post by Wayne Land on May 6, 2013 23:46:33 GMT -5
not a problem at all. FYI there's an edit button at the bottom of each post if you want to make corrections ever. Not necessary though. Thanks for your post.
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Post by Billy el nino on May 15, 2013 4:40:02 GMT -5
Hello Wayne, I have already looked at the website you gave and has helped me understand more of Brushy bill and Billy the kid. Those photo's were very convincing and some of the information that was presented to me on that website. But I think it may take a while for me to find some of those books you read that you recommended me.But is there any websites that may have the books, you recommended me, word for word written on the website.
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Post by John Sedillo on Feb 21, 2014 7:53:16 GMT -5
I have searched and searched and I don't find any Jose Miguel Sedillos on ancestry.com. Did you find him in a census? What year and where did he live? Hello Maria died in child birth with my grt grandfather Rafino Sedillo I saw you visited my web site and ordered the life mag. john
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Post by johnsedillo12 on Mar 12, 2014 0:14:49 GMT -5
I have searched and searched and I don't find any Jose Miguel Sedillos on ancestry.com. Did you find him in a census? What year and where did he live? Hello Maria died in child birth with my grt grandfather Rafino Sedillo I saw you visited my web site and ordered the life mag. john Hello I'm John Sedillo I have a web site and I believe you are talking about my ancestry.com site. My email is eme5658@gmail.com I researched my grt grt grand fathers 1862 land from the us government and have a ton of origonal papers he stated he lost maria Inez in child birth and I later found he married a Ramona .If I can help you with info I have .please feel free to email john
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Post by johnsedillo12 on Mar 12, 2014 0:25:49 GMT -5
Wayne, Every one that knew Billy talked about him speaking fluent spanish "like a native." That was one of the many reasons they liked him so much. As to your statement Speaking of facts you ask how I determined the "Sedillos girl" had a father named Jose and mother Maria. On you post of Oct. 23, 2012 11:49 PM, you talked about the letter from Jim Tully. In the letter it stated that Billy had a sweetheart in San Patricio and Brushy stated it was "A Sedillios girl across the river." I ask if you knew her name but I don't remember if you found her name. I have all kinds of books on the area with family names as well as books on the LCW. I had heard the name Sedillio but not as a girlfriend. I looked in a few books and found the name Jose Miguel Sedillos in Pat Garrett's book and also in George Coe's book. It has to do with Jose being a good friend of Billy the Kids and letting him know that Jesse Evans was in the area. (I won't go into the story but it had nothing to do with Billy's girlfriend.) I looked through a few of the family history books as well as a few sites that I use. I didn't really find anything on him but on a Sedillo Family Tree site, I found Jose Miguel Sedillos and the stories that are in Pat Garrett's and George Coe's books. They also have a picture of Jose M. Sedillos and below the picture it has Life Magazine, Aug. 4, 1941. You can click on the site and it brings up the magazine with pictures around Lincoln and San Patricio in 1941. One of the pictures is of a man by the name of Sixto Sedillos. Above him in his home is a picture of Jose Miguel Sedillos and Sixto states that Billy the Kid was in love with his sister, (no name) but they wouldn't let her and Billy get married. On the Sedillos Family Tree site, It list Jose Miguel Sedillos, wife Maria Chaves Garcia and their children. There is a Sisto Garcia Sedillos born in 1867 but when doing Census search, I find him born in 1870 and 1872. The first girl that I find is a Maria Sedillo born in 1874. I also find her on Census as 1874. So I guess because I did not have any full Sedillos names and found Jose Miguel Sedillos in two different books and the same info. on a Family Tree site, then the 1941 Life Magazine, I feel they are the Sedillos that we are looking for. If not, give me their names and I will start researching them. I hope this helps. I did hear back from my contact this moring. She has been busy but did visit with a aunt. She did not remember Josephine, Eddie or the story. She is going to check with other family members when she gets time. I sent her the material that I feel showes they are kin through W. Gill. I still need to visit with another lady that I know in San Patricio and will keep you posted.
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Post by johnsedillo12 on Mar 12, 2014 0:26:33 GMT -5
Pat Garrett would've made a great 21st Century Republican in Washington, by telling a HUGE lie and shouting it repeatedly until accepted as fact to this day. I am thoroughly convinced that the man known as Ollie "Brushy Bill" Roberts WAS the same individual in the iconic tintype image attributed to "Billy the Kid". The faces of a younger "Brushy" are an exact match—and even in old-age, the eyes are identifiable. That would mean the 1881 myth is a yarn. I'm fascinated by Billy's post-outlaw days. He allegedly went on to have a career in law enforcement. He was also reported to be one of the brave Americans joining Teddy Roosevelt in "The Rough Riders". I cannot imagine what Ollie's life was like—watching Pat Garrett become famous over a lie while his alleged target remained quiet on-the-lamb until age 90. History will need to be re-examined and rewritten on Billy the Kid. It's not a question of IF...it's a matter of WHEN.
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Post by johnsedillo12 on Mar 12, 2014 0:34:23 GMT -5
Wayne, On your computer in your search, type in Jose Miguel Sedillos San Patricio NM. It should take you to different sites. Look for one that has Jose Miguel Sedillos 1842 -1898. or Johnsedillos. Jose Miguel Sedillo married Maria Ynes Garcia on April 8, 1860 in Santa Genevieves Las Cruces, NM. I find Maria Sedillo baptism 31 May 1874, Father Jose Miguel Sedillo, Mother Maria Inex Garcia, Santa Rita, Carrizozo, Lincoln, New Mexico (Note: One the family site they also have this info. but state they were living in San Patricio.) Sixto Sedillo, Married Margarita Olguin 28 July 1892 Santa Rita, Carrizozo, Lincoln New Mexico Father Jose Miguel Sedillo, Mother Maria Ynes Garcia. brides father Ramon Olguin, mother Laurenza Sedillo? Rafael Sedillo Married Reynalda Montoya 28 Jan 1893 Santa Rita, Carrizozo, Lincoln New Mexico. Father, Jose Miguel Sedillo, Mother Maria Ynes Garcia. brides father Juan Montoya mother Perfedia Aragun. I thought I found them on a census together but I didn't find it. I will look again.
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Post by John sedillo on Mar 19, 2014 14:21:01 GMT -5
Wayne, Every one that knew Billy talked about him speaking fluent spanish "like a native." That was one of the many reasons they liked him so much. As to your statement Speaking of facts you ask how I determined the "Sedillos girl" had a father named Jose and mother Maria. On you post of Oct. 23, 2012 11:49 PM, you talked about the letter from Jim Tully. In the letter it stated that Billy had a sweetheart in San Patricio and Brushy stated it was "A Sedillios girl across the river." I ask if you knew her name but I don't remember if you found her name. I have all kinds of books on the area with family names as well as books on the LCW. I had heard the name Sedillio but not as a girlfriend. I looked in a few books and found the name Jose Miguel Sedillos in Pat Garrett's book and also in George Coe's book. It has to do with Jose being a good friend of Billy the Kids and letting him know that Jesse Evans was in the area. (I won't go into the story but it had nothing to do with Billy's girlfriend.) I looked through a few of the family history books as well as a few sites that I use. I didn't really find anything on him but on a Sedillo Family Tree site, I found Jose Miguel Sedillos and the stories that are in Pat Garrett's and George Coe's books. They also have a picture of Jose M. Sedillos and below the picture it has Life Magazine, Aug. 4, 1941. You can click on the site and it brings up the magazine with pictures around Lincoln and San Patricio in 1941. One of the pictures is of a man by the name of Sixto Sedillos. Above him in his home is a picture of Jose Miguel Sedillos and Sixto states that Billy the Kid was in love with his sister, (no name) but they wouldn't let her and Billy get married. On the Sedillos Family Tree site, It list Jose Miguel Sedillos, wife Maria Chaves Garcia and their children. There is a Sisto Garcia Sedillos born in 1867 but when doing Census search, I find him born in 1870 and 1872. The first girl that I find is a Maria Sedillo born in 1874. I also find her on Census as 1874. So I guess because I did not have any full Sedillos names and found Jose Miguel Sedillos in two different books and the same info. on a Family Tree site, then the 1941 Life Magazine, I feel they are the Sedillos that we are looking for. If not, give me their names and I will start researching them. I hope this helps. I did hear back from my contact this moring. She has been busy but did visit with a aunt. She did not remember Josephine, Eddie or the story. She is going to check with other family members when she gets time. I sent her the material that I feel showes they are kin through W. Gill. I still need to visit with another lady that I know in San Patricio and will keep you posted.
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Post by John sedillo on Mar 19, 2014 14:24:21 GMT -5
Wayne, Just a quick update on Sedillo / Tully. I had emailed a lady that I know who should be kin to Josephine Sanchez. When I first made contact with her, she didn't remember Josephine but said she would check with the family. She did email me back and is kin. She also gave me the name of a grandson of Sistos Sedillos and where he lives. He is up in age so I am not going to bother him as I feel I have enough information on them. As I have stated before, The Sedillos girl was born in 1874. I think she was to young to date Billy the Kid and besides that, the lady's great grandmother was at Billy the Kid funeral. I also got to checking into Jim Tully. This one was a shock to me as it turned out the lady in San Patricio that I know, is the daughter of Jim Tully. We had a good visit and just let me say I haven't found anything new to change my mind about Brushy Bill. Research was slow for awhile until about March. I have been working on some new leads that has to do with Oliver Lee and the Clements came up. Nothing on Brushy Bill yet but one never knows. However I was in Alamogordo doing some reasearch and a lady told me about a new book that came out late last year. (August 2012) I got the book and it looks like Brushy was not Billy the Kid. I will let you get the book and read it. The name of the Book is An Outlaw Called Kidd, The Reality of Billy the Kid. (Someone else was-but you need to read the book). nmjames
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Post by John sedillo on Mar 19, 2014 14:26:31 GMT -5
Wayne, Just a quick update on Sedillo / Tully. I had emailed a lady that I know who should be kin to Josephine Sanchez. When I first made contact with her, she didn't remember Josephine but said she would check with the family. She did email me back and is kin. She also gave me the name of a grandson of Sistos Sedillos and where he lives. He is up in age so I am not going to bother him as I feel I have enough information on them. As I have stated before, The Sedillos girl was born in 1874. I think she was to young to date Billy the Kid and besides that, the lady's great grandmother was at Billy the Kid funeral. I also got to checking into Jim Tully. This one was a shock to me as it turned out the lady in San Patricio that I know, is the daughter of Jim Tully. We had a good visit and just let me say I haven't found anything new to change my mind about Brushy Bill. Research was slow for awhile until about March. I have been working on some new leads that has to do with Oliver Lee and the Clements came up. Nothing on Brushy Bill yet but one never knows. However I was in Alamogordo doing some reasearch and a lady told me about a new book that came out late last year. (August 2012) I got the book and it looks like Brushy was not Billy the Kid. I will let you get the book and read it. The name of the Book is An Outlaw Called Kidd, The Reality of Billy the Kid. (Someone else was-but you need to read the book). nmjames
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