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Post by brianthedude on Dec 14, 2011 20:32:13 GMT -5
Great website/discussion here! I've recently dove into this subject, and have been going through all the purported photos of Billy the Kid out there. I was just looking at the following photo (the one at the top of the page): www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/photos6.htmlThe young man in this photo doesn't strike me as looking similar to the other numerous supposed photos of Billy, but honestly most of those don't seem to closely resemble the one authenticated tintype (or each other, for that matter). And the provenance of most or all of them seems to consist of little more than someone noticing a potential resemblance, 100+ years later. If the back story of this photo is legitimate, however, might it not have more credibility and provenance than any of the other potential second photos, given its label of "Wm. Billy Kid" and a date/location origin seemingly consistent with accepted history? At first glance, I could see some resemblance to the later tintype, but aside from that I just KNEW I'd seen this kid before... www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/brushypics1.htmlIn my opinion, the resemblance here is intuitive, striking and undeniable! What do you guys think?
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Post by searcher64 on Dec 15, 2011 16:58:50 GMT -5
i've found no less than 14 photos purported to be the kid which closely match each other NOT COUNTING the numerous photos brushy had with him, which also match incredibly well with the others. more of these other photos from various sources match than don't... i tried to sneak a photo of dolan, who looked similar, into the test along with, and it didn't agree. haven't tried that photo in your first link yet. it didn't look like him to me, but that type of statement has bit me on the rump before... i'll put it in and see what comes up.
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Post by searcher64 on Dec 15, 2011 17:36:48 GMT -5
you take the first photo you mentioned above and REVERSE IT and it looks a lot more like him. facial interdimensional strength is good, which is why i won't rule it out... there are a few minor facial differences which make me wonder, but could probably be explained physically. when i compared the mirror image to the unknown seated photo i use for a baseline, at a certain point the mixture looks a lot like the brushy teen and butte photos. . . this wm. billy kid in the photo may have a much larger forehead than the other photos, and less chin, and the mouth shape seems all wrong, but this could be decieving... Attachments:
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Post by searcher64 on Dec 15, 2011 17:39:17 GMT -5
as far as credibility, yes i agree, a dilapidated old photo with ancient writing saying anything like 'billy kid' should be given consideration, imo.
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Post by searcher64 on Dec 15, 2011 18:18:38 GMT -5
it would help if we could see the hands...
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William H Bonney my hero
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Post by William H Bonney my hero on Dec 17, 2011 12:52:35 GMT -5
I have another update, Mr land website was petty good but I wish he could make more on the website about Billy and his life as Brushy Bill Roberts. whbonney.angelfire.com/it About Billy childhood and it then cuts to his life after escaping fort Summer. It should have new pages like His life as Billy the kid and His last years(Him trying to get a pardon and his Death). I Liked Wayne land Opinon that Billy made up a little of his story about the gunfight at fort summer(that there were actually three shots fired and not many like what Billy said). It like The Conspiray theroies on how many shots were fired in the Kennedy Assassination.
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Post by Wayne Land on Dec 17, 2011 14:27:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion. Of course the purpose of the website is to examine the evidence as to the voracity of Brushy's claim of being Billy The Kid. There really is no attempt to present the history and events of his life either before or after 1881.
However, I am currently working on a new version of the site and will be moving it to a different server in a few months as Apple computer is discontinuing their MobileMe service. Maybe I'll try to add some history to the new version. The site you linked to above is excellent as a synopsis of his life after 1881 but the problem is that it really takes a "book" to tell the whole story. A website isn't really the right tool for that. But I'll certainly look at adding at least some of the history.
Suggestions are always appreciated.
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William H Bonney my hero
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Post by William H Bonney my hero on Dec 17, 2011 15:40:42 GMT -5
Thanks mr Wayne Land and also like what I said about the theroy on how many shots were fired on that night in fort summer, I have a simaller website about the Kennedy assassiantion expect it Not about invesgating how many shots were actually fired that day in dallas, it invesgating on whetever Lee Harvey Oswald(The Alleged Assassin of John Kenendy) was guilty or Innocent. I Do not know whetever you look at it but I put it up anyway... It is still being made but I made a lot. www.giljesus.com/P.S. Happy Holidays!
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Post by brianthedude on Dec 26, 2011 1:39:11 GMT -5
Interesting photo comparison -- the reversal definitely makes it look even more like the de Aragon photo that you compared it to. The flip may be indeed accurate, as the site says that it is also a tintype print (and hence a mirror image). My little epiphany was that the guy in that photo looks to me an absolute spitting image of the guy in the teenage Brushy Bill Roberts photos. A lot of the criticism of those pictures seems to be based on their debatable lack of resemblance to some of the many photos out there purported to be Billy the Kid (just a few years later). My original point was that this criticism might not be fair or accurate, as any of the other photos may or may not be actually of Billy. When compared to of all of the potential photos of Billy the Kid, Roberts most strongly resembles the man in the two photos accepted to be Billy -- and in my opinion this new one, which supposedly carries a historical label.
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Post by brianthedude on Dec 29, 2011 18:32:47 GMT -5
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Post by searcher64 on Jan 2, 2012 23:09:04 GMT -5
wouldn't this item, with its date stamped 1884, be considered provenance for the authenticity of this particular photo of btk? cody knew the kid....
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Post by Wayne Land on Jan 3, 2012 15:05:13 GMT -5
I would think to a degree, yes, that's provenance. But historians would want to know how the promoters of Cody obtained the photo. According to Brushy, he Cody knew who he was and all, but that was later than 1884 he told of riding in the show. Even if we have evidence Cody did know the Kid in 1884, there's still no hard proof this is an authentic photo. It is possible the promoters of the show wanted a pic of Billy and didn't have one so they dug up a photo they thought would pass as him and used it for monetary gain.
I'm no expert historian for sure, but I think to have this photo accepted by historians there would need to be more complete information as to when and where it was taken and how it got into the hands of those that produced the card.
Maybe someone can find more information on it. It definitely has a close resemblance to the Kid.
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Post by searcher64 on Jan 6, 2012 14:43:16 GMT -5
i'm hesitant to say the wm. billy kid pic is our guy, just can't fully eliminate the possibility in the test. r.e. the group photo supposedly of billy playing a fiddle surrounded by regulators: the others were too old to be regulators generally, and i said 'haven't i seen this guy before' and the one that is supposedly billy is actually DOLAN....
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Post by musketeer1640 on Jan 19, 2013 3:20:20 GMT -5
I know it's been a year since that ebay picture was up (supposedly of BTK at the Wild West Show in 1884), so naturally the photo isn't available anymore to see on that webpage. Can anybody post it here so that it can be viewed? I tried in vain to google the photo. Thanks!
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Post by brianthedude on Jan 26, 2013 12:38:08 GMT -5
Here's the photo from that auction. Attachments:
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