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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 11, 2011 16:46:51 GMT -5
nmjames,
I think the WPA interview you mentioned is probably what I had read about. I'm going to try and find that. I just want to mention here that even otherwise honest people participate in cover ups when the motivation is sufficient. Also, I think it's important that Poe had never seen Billy prior to the shooting in Ft. Sumner and if indeed the fella' who was shot was not Billy The Kid, he still hadn't seen him after that night either. So in a legal sense, Poe was not qualified to identify the Kid one way or the other. His opinion whether the fella' shot that night was the true Billy isn't worth a great deal. He had to go by what Garrett said. It is entirely possible that Garrett, Maxwell, Deluvina, and Jesus were the only ones who ever knew the truth. Now I'm not suggesting I believe that is the case. I'm just saying it is possible that after Poe questioned Garrett about possibly having shot the wrong man and Garrett defended the action saying he would know his voice anywhere, that Poe and McKinney believed him at that point. I'm just brainstorming here. I certainly don't know what really happened. Poe's letter, while very interesting, doesn't change that.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 11, 2011 20:04:47 GMT -5
One more thought I meant to include in the previous post. Simply that Poe's comment to Garrett about having shot the wrong man is not nearly as "telling" as the "fact" that the man shot queried of the two deputies, "Quin Es?" "Quien Es?" in Spanish. They answered him in English and he continued to speak Spanish. This tells us the fella' did not know any English. Which means he was not William H. Bonney.
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Post by nmjames on Jul 11, 2011 20:55:00 GMT -5
Wayne,
As for the first post all I am going to say is John Poe was said to have been a very honest man. He was a very qualified Lawman. I will take his word over what happen any day over that of Brushy Bill that couldn't get anything right. John Poe was there and I don't think Brushy was. (Just my thoughts)
As to your second post and thought. You really need to get John Poe's and Pat Garrett's books or statements. I am not going to type everything Poe said as it is very long. You can look it up but I will type this part.
An instant after the man left the door, I heard a voice inquire in a sharp tone, "Pete who are those fellows on the outside?"
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 12, 2011 1:23:55 GMT -5
I've read both Garrett's and Poe's accounts. I own a copy of Garrett's book. Garrett says after Billy entered the room he started toward the bed and before he got there, Garrett asks Maxwell "Who is it, Pete?" Now this is a small room and it wasn't very far from the door to Maxwell's bed and Garrett whispers to Maxwell who hears his question yet Billy doesn't hear it. He continues toward the bed, puts his hands on the bed almost touching Garrett's knee, still not seeing the 6'5" tall figure sitting just inches from him. At some point in there he says to Pete. in a "low tone", "Who are they?". In Garrett's book, that question is in English. I'm not sure if it was maybe in the coroner's report or somewhere, but I know I read somewhere else that the question was also in Spanish. Either way, Maxwell then says to Garrett, "That's him". Poe says he hears clearly the question, in a "sharp tone", "Pete, who are those men on the outside?" Quite different wording than Garrett describes and spoken clearly enough they could hear it outside on the porch as a sharp tone, yet Garrett says it was in a "low tone". No ask yourself, if Billy already had a pistol in his hand and he hears Maxwell say "That's him", and he's standing just inches from Garrett, why did he back up and again ask in Spanish, "Quien Es?" In other words, even if the intruder did indeed speak a few words in English, if English had been his first language he would have spoken english to Poe and McKinney and his final words would have been "who is it?" not "Quien Es?" Of course all of that is if you believe for even a second that he wouldn't have simply fired first and asked his questions later. Billy The Kid would have. Billy Barlow was too slow.
BTW, Brushy got many things "right". Even some things that most historians didn't know in the late 1940's.
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Post by devinb on Jul 12, 2011 8:11:56 GMT -5
Didn't Poe later contradict Garrett's account (and backup Brushy's claim) that the 'victim' was gunned down outside on the Maxwell house, by the door?
And isn't it possible that Garrett could have shot the corpse in the face, making positive ID impossible? Brushy said his friend looked a lot like him.
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Post by devinb on Jul 12, 2011 8:29:24 GMT -5
I also find it suspicious that post mortem images of such an infamous outlaw weren't taken, at Garrett's request, and circulated far and wide to help solidify his claim of having bested the Kid. Instead, it was handled quite secretively. In an era when propping up bodies for pictures was common, where's Billy's death image?
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Post by devinb on Jul 12, 2011 8:39:09 GMT -5
I'm nearly through reading "Alias Billy the Kid"—I'm truly convinced Brushy Bill was the true Kid. It has motivated me to begin a writing project of my own...a script. Isn't it time Brushy's story is made into an accurate movie? I think so.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jul 12, 2011 10:25:33 GMT -5
I don't think Poe ever told that version. But allegedly McKinney did say that "he" had done the shooting, rather than Garrett, and that the victim was a Mexican and was killed on the porch. I pretty sure I also read McKinney on one occasion claimed Billy was shot by Garrett who was hiding behind a bed in Paulita's room, Paulita being tied to the bed as bait. Allegedly Garrett, in a bit of a drunken state, told a friend later that he had shot Billy through the window of Garrett's room while Billy was on the porch cutting beef. If you haven't already, read my webpage at www.musicplay.com/Brushy/July_14.htmlI'd love to see an accurate movie done! But I can't see Hollywood taking that leap unless it was first proven Brushy was the real BTK. I'd love to see an accurate movie based on the historic Billy's story. Like Young Guns except a lot more historically accurate, with Morrison meeting Brushy in Hamilton, TX instead of in White Sands, NM. Then when he starts telling his story to Morrison, the film would take us through events of his birth and childhood, then at the end Billy Barlow gets killed.
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Post by devinb on Jul 12, 2011 14:10:01 GMT -5
If it's written well-enough, anything's possible! I think Brushy Bill's story is remarkable on it's own merit.
My first draft begins on the day of Brushy's death (12/27/50), as he's walking into downtown Hico, TX to mail Melinda's parcel--he turns to face the grotesque, posterized, almost demonic image from the reprinted representation of the iconic tintype in-person (gray, w/blazing blue eyes). His legend/phantom quick-draws, shooting Brushy thru the heart--then as he lay dying, he narrates through the events of his life in flashback.
I like the visual of his "legend" finally catching up to him, ultimately killing the man.
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Post by devinb on Aug 5, 2011 7:56:54 GMT -5
Greetings. I'm doing research for project on Brushy Bill, and I had a few questions to pose to the board:
(1) does anyone know if and online record exists of Brushy Bill as one of Teddy Roosevelt's "Rough Riders"?
(2) does anyone know if Brushy Bill and a wife and children down in old Mexico at about the time of the war down there... Did they perish?
(3) does anyone know, off hand, if there are any records of Brushy Bill's time as a law-enforcement officer?
Thx!
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