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Post by musketeer1640 on Jan 19, 2013 4:01:48 GMT -5
An earlier post was made on this board (by Wayne Land) about what Mr. Bean found in Brushy's old trunk, namely: "Three Big Chief writing tablets. Each one was partially filled with barely legible script accomplished with a dull pencil. The printing, according to Allison, was that of William Henry Roberts, and was a crude attempt at telling his life story." I recently read that same remark in W.C. Jameson's wonderful book "The Lost Interviews." My question is, why didn't Bean find an interest in those notebooks?? Or did he? Even if hard to read and follow, just like the lost interview tapes were for him to hear, it may have been worth the effort to learn even more than what is known now about Brushy's life. And were all three tablets filled with his autobiography? And, not only this, but as I also learned in Mr. Jameson's book, that the notebooks of Morrison is now in possession of his granddaughter, and that she may write some sort of screenplay with them. Other than this, will there ever be a book documenting his notes from his Brushy interviews in complete form? Or, will they never be seen? .... Any thoughts?
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Post by Judi L Christopher on Feb 27, 2013 1:36:07 GMT -5
Regarding Morrison's statement, I read that as intended to clarify that Brushy stated Katherine McCarty/Antrim was "not" his mother but rather his aunt. He doesn't say that Brushy's statement was in response to viewing that particular photo. It's more like, "here's a picture of Katherine" and Brushy said Katherine was his aunt, not his mother. If Morrison acquired that picture in the process of getting his book out, then no, Brushy probably never saw that photo. Regarding the real Oliver Roberts. I do so wish Brushy could have lived long enough to answer some of these questions. I have a theory about Oliver Roberts that is a bit radical and I certainly have no proof it is correct. The only evidence I have is simple logic. Hold on to your hat. Here goes: My theory proposes that there was a real live Oliver "L" Roberts born to Elizabeth Ferguson out of wedlock in either 1867 or 1868. Since she would have been just a 13 year old girl, the baby might have been raised by other family or friends either to protect her reputation or in the best interest of the baby or both. This child would never have been reported to census takers obviously. Then in 1878 or 1879, Oliver "Pleasant" Roberts was born to the same parents who were now married. Henry and Elizabeth may have had limited contact with that first baby who left in 1884 as the family later said, never to return. But Brushy knew about this cousin Oliver L. Roberts and when he discovered he'd been killed, later returning his belongings to Elizabeth and Henry, Elizabeth mistook Brushy as the missing Oliver L. I theorize the real Oliver Pleasant, born in 1879 was the one who married Anna Lee in 1908 and divorced her in 1910. I further theorize that Oliver Pleasant then left his family to claim a new life elsewhere, about the same time Brushy showed up with Oliver L's belongings. I theorize that Elizabeth, the mother of the two Olivers, was having some mental issues and the family didn't want to make her worse by forcing her to accept that both Olivers were now gone. Maybe she did think Brushy was Oliver Pleasant, maybe she thought he was Oliver L., it doesn't really matter. It is reported as fact that Martha Vada Roberts, sister of Oliver Pleasant, insisted Brushy was "not" her brother Oliver. Mind you, all this is just theorizing. So some may ask me how I could come up with such a theory. You see, I believe the evidence suggesting Brushy really was Billy The Kid to be so strong that while others see contradictions in Brushy's story and say "that means he was lying", I see contradictions in his story and think "there has to be an explanation". Maybe my theory is totally bogus. It probably is. But even so, I believe there has to be an explanation because I am so convinced by the other evidence.
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Post by Tim on Aug 29, 2016 21:53:11 GMT -5
Just to clarify my comments above about the Bible(s). The Billy The Kid Outlaw Gang sent a letter to Geneva Pittmon and she wrote back saying she knew Brushy was her Uncle Oliver born in 1879 and she had the family Bible to prove it. It's not that I doubt she actually had a family Bible with Oliver Pleasant Roberts listed as born in 1879. After all, that's when Oliver P. was born. It's in the census records as well. My comments were in response to the doubts that Brushy had a Bible belonging to his dad that proved he was born Dec. 31, 1859. It's like no one wants to believe such a Bible exists yet they all want to point to Geneva's Bible as some kind of proof against Brushy. My point being that if one is to simply take Geneva's word that she had a Bible, then why wouldn't we believe Brushy had a Bible with his true family history inside? Morrison saw it, Sonnichsen saw it, Brett Hall saw it, and Frederic Bean saw it. They all made statements to that fact. But those Brushy "naysayers" love to jump up and shout, "he wasn't born until 1879 and Geneva has the Bible that proves it!" I don't doubt she had a Bible, but it doesn't prove Brushy was Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Several eyewitness accounts clearly describe the Bible Brushy had and unless they're all lying about what they saw, it pretty much proves he was Billy The Kid.
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Post by maggiethearchivist on Feb 2, 2021 21:21:19 GMT -5
Hey All!
Bringing this chain back - I wanted to ask, was anyone ever able to get in touch with any of Brushy's current living relatives? That nephew you mentioned, Wayne? Is Bill Allison still alive?
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Feb 2, 2021 22:18:40 GMT -5
Hey All! Bringing this chain back - I wanted to ask, was anyone ever able to get in touch with any of Brushy's current living relatives? That nephew you mentioned, Wayne? Is Bill Allison still alive? Bill Allison (William Edward Allison Jr) died 11 Feb 1996. Bill was not related to Brushy. He was the grandson of Brushy's last wife, Melinda Elizabeth "Lizzie" Murrell Hooper Allison Roberts Long.
There are no known living relatives of Billy the Kid. Brushy had no descendants, but there are living descendants of Brushy/Oliver P Roberts' siblings.
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Post by RonBk on Feb 3, 2021 16:42:15 GMT -5
If Brushy was a fraud, why would he even claim any relationship to Oliver Roberts? Why claim Katherine Antrim was his Aunt rather than his mother? Why such pointless detours? Why risk a death sentence for crimes he had nothing to do with? I have to wonder if Brushy had been believed by Governor Mabry and been arrested and carted off to jail and scheduled for execution, whether there'd still be those who disbelieved his claim. What was he going to do if that had transpired? Come back to the Gov and say, "sorry Gov, I was just kidding"? Excellent points. Its details like these that make Brushys claim so convincing. If he were an imposter he would have claimed Kathrine Mccarty was his mom. The only reasonable explanation that he claimed she was his aunt is that he was telling the truth. The truth lies in the details. Same answer to the question why he would risk getting himself executed when revealing himself as an outlaw with a death sentence. He was really Billy and he was 90 years old and wanted the pardon he had been promised long ago. Probably had thought about that pardon many times over his long life that were now soon over anyway, so why not get on with it when the opportunity appeared. That is the most logical answer. The other possible answer, that it was Oliver Pleasant who came forward, is not so logical. Actually even higly unlogical. No credible explanation for that scenario. Oliver Pleasant Roberts, the 70 year old farmer with a deathwish who not only managed to fool Severo Gallegos, the Jones Brothers, Josephine Sanchez and others he was Billy the kid, but also managed to look just like Billy and to present intricate details of Billys earlier days such as the story of Aunt Ann the ex-slave who cooked for Belle Starr. Thats just not credible. No way he was Oliver Pleasant.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Feb 3, 2021 18:26:37 GMT -5
"If he were an imposter he would have claimed Kathrine Mccarty was his mom. The only reasonable explanation that he claimed she was his aunt is that he was telling the truth. The truth lies in the details."
Not possible. Nowhere in "Alias Billy the Kid" does the name, McCarty, appear. The half-sister of Mrs. Roberts was identified as Katherine Ann (Kathleen)Bonney. The 1882 book, "The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid", by Garrett and Upson, referred to her as Kathleen, just like Brushy did. It was 1952 after Brushy's death that Bob Mullin and Phil Rasch found the marriage record of William Antrim and the Kid's mother, Catherine McCarty. Before 1952, it was assumed that Billy the Kid's name was Bonney and Antrim as found in NM trial records.
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Post by Wayne Land on Feb 3, 2021 22:48:46 GMT -5
As usual, you are presented with an argument in Brushy's favor that you have no good answer for so you just go off in a different direction or apply some related twist for which you think you have an answer. This isn't about whether Brushy used the correct name for Catherine (Kathleen) Antrim/McCarty/Bonney. It is about why he would not claim her (whatever name used) as his mother. Why go against the grain in his story? Answer that question if you can.
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Post by RonBk on Feb 4, 2021 1:35:32 GMT -5
It wasnt my intention to claim that Brushy said Kathrines name was McCarthy. What I meant was the person we identify as Kathrine Antrim/Bonney/McCarthy. But you are correct about that, of course Brushy wasnt calling her McCarthy.
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