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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jan 23, 2019 22:23:57 GMT -5
Daniel,
"You, sir, are ridiculous....and it is obvious I am wasting my time here."
Fake facts? Tired arguments? Just inconvenient facts.
“Who was Geneva Pittmon?” Research of census and cemetery records prove she was a niece of Oliver P Roberts as she stated in the letter. All information in the letter has been verified, including the misinformation provided to her by William A Tunstill that Ben Roberts was her ancestor.
It was my understanding that you were interested in a serious discussion of the validity of Brushy Bill’s story that he was Billy the Kid. Maybe not.
Yes it is ridiculous to question Brushy Bill’s story. But researchers want to find credible evidence that supports the story published in “Alias Billy the Kid”. It is unfortunate no record of Brushy’s parents, J. H. Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn; step-brother James Roberts; or cousin Ollie Roberts has been found. His cousin, Martha Heath turned out to be Martha Vada Roberts Heath, a half-sister of Oliver P Roberts. It is also unfortunate that Brushy, born in 1859, said he always looked young for his age, while Oliver P Roberts, born in 1879, would look much younger than a man born in 1859. It is unfortunate that no death record or grave of Oliver P. Roberts, a resident of Van Zandt County by 1910, has been found so that Brushy could then assume his identity.
Perhaps you’ve found important evidence contradicting these facts.
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The Greenock Bandit
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Post by The Greenock Bandit on Aug 25, 2019 12:41:08 GMT -5
44 Colt, I was impressed by your book. Oral history has been undervalued by academe. There is a particular note evident in personal statements that resonate with the truth. Brushy Bill's statements tend to carry that note. To my mind, it appears he actually was Billy The Kid or else the greatest actor imaginable.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 26, 2019 23:39:42 GMT -5
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Post by clydec on Aug 27, 2019 8:44:08 GMT -5
Is this for real mckinley412 or is it bogus? |
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Post by chivato88 on Aug 29, 2019 15:36:13 GMT -5
I wonder if TTT knew about it  |
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Post by wannabe12 on Aug 31, 2019 2:03:28 GMT -5
This Mary A Roberts' maiden name was Cummins, her middle name was Ann, she and John H were married Nov 19 1857 in Mercer County,Ky, where they are counted in the census in 1860. Looks like they either lived with the Roberts family or near by. How can you argue census records are meaningless when they prove Brushy's facts incorrect, but try to support his claim with a small bit of information from them without checking it?
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Post by nmjames on Aug 31, 2019 2:33:19 GMT -5
wannabe12: If you will do a little more work on John H. you also will find his last name may have been Robards and not Roberts. This is on their marriage record.
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Post by texas truth teller on Aug 31, 2019 20:58:07 GMT -5
This Mary A Roberts' maiden name was Cummins, her middle name was Ann, she and John H were married Nov 19 1857 in Mercer County,Ky, where they are counted in the census in 1860. Looks like they either lived with the Roberts family or near by. How can you argue census records are meaningless when they prove Brushy's facts incorrect, but try to support his claim with a small bit of information from them without checking it? Well, the surname was Roberts, the husband was J H, and the spouse was Mary A. The census page was dated 13 August 1860. Brushy said he was born 31 December 1859. That is sufficient information to prove that these were not Brushy's parents. The additional information from census and marriage records provides more proof that they were not the mythical J H "Wild Henry" Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn. |
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Post by chivato88 on Sept 1, 2019 8:09:05 GMT -5
This Mary A Roberts' maiden name was Cummins, her middle name was Ann, she and John H were married Nov 19 1857 in Mercer County,Ky, where they are counted in the census in 1860. Looks like they either lived with the Roberts family or near by. How can you argue census records are meaningless when they prove Brushy's facts incorrect, but try to support his claim with a small bit of information from them without checking it? Well, the surname was Roberts, the husband was J H, and the spouse was Mary A. The census page was dated 13 August 1860. Brushy said he was born 31 December 1859. That is sufficient information to prove that these were not Brushy's parents. The additional information from census and marriage records provides more proof that they were not the mythical J H "Wild Henry" Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn. How can it be sufficient theyre 1 year a part,Brushy might be wrong(or lied to be accurate with historians)about is date of birth, Im not experts like you guys but I can see clearly that we have something here. And TTT you of all people know that census record are not 100% accurate |
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Sept 1, 2019 14:00:35 GMT -5
Well, the surname was Roberts, the husband was J H, and the spouse was Mary A. The census page was dated 13 August 1860. Brushy said he was born 31 December 1859. That is sufficient information to prove that these were not Brushy's parents. The additional information from census and marriage records provides more proof that they were not the mythical J H "Wild Henry" Roberts and Mary Adeline Dunn. How can it be sufficient theyre 1 year a part,Brushy might be wrong(or lied to be accurate with historians)about is date of birth, Im not experts like you guys but I can see clearly that we have something here. And TTT you of all people know that census record are not 100% accurate chivato88 A single census record is seldom conclusive proof. But Brushy said he was born near Buffalo Gap, Texas, in 1859. Mercer County marriage records show that John H Roberts married Mary Ann Cummins 19 Nov 1857. John and Mary were still in Mercer County in 1860.
There is no doubt that Brushy Bill lied about his age. He told Morrison he was born 31 Dec 1859; then in the 1920 and 1930 census his reported birth year as about 1879; he gave his birth date as 26 August 1878 when he personally registered for the WWI draft; then in the 1940 census he changed his year of birth to about 1870. His widow, Malinda Roberts, thought Brushy was born 31 December 1868.
Brushy's actual date of birth was 26 August 1879 in Sebastian County, Arkansas, and his parents were Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson. His birth name was Oliver Pleasant Roberts as he reported when he registered for the WWI draft.
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Post by chivato88 on Sept 1, 2019 17:29:20 GMT -5
How can it be sufficient theyre 1 year a part,Brushy might be wrong(or lied to be accurate with historians)about is date of birth, Im not experts like you guys but I can see clearly that we have something here. And TTT you of all people know that census record are not 100% accurate chivato88 A single census record is seldom conclusive proof. But Brushy said he was born near Buffalo Gap, Texas, in 1859. Mercer County marriage records show that John H Roberts married Mary Ann Cummins 19 Nov 1857. John and Mary were still in Mercer County in 1860.
There is no doubt that Brushy Bill lied about his age. He told Morrison he was born 31 Dec 1859; then in the 1920 and 1930 census his reported birth year as about 1879; he gave his birth date as 26 August 1878 when he personally registered for the WWI draft; then in the 1940 census he changed his year of birth to about 1870. His widow, Malinda Roberts, thought Brushy was born 31 December 1868.
Brushy's actual date of birth was 26 August 1879 in Sebastian County, Arkansas, and his parents were Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson. His birth name was Oliver Pleasant Roberts as he reported when he registered for the WWI draft.
The reason why I dont believe O.P. Roberts and Brushy were the same person is the birthdate of O.P. Robert. Brushy has an appearence of someone in his early 80's and dont you find it kind of odd that even his own wife dont even know is date of birth, thats a 10 year difference, thats a whole lot |
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 2, 2019 18:07:29 GMT -5
Many people in the 1800's and 1900's did not put importance in birthdays. They were not a huge deal like they are now, since they're more money makers for card and gift companies than anything else. So it is possible that Brushy's wife didn't know what his actual date of birth was. If Brushy didn't read well, as he says in his interviews, that they told him what the family bible said about his birth, he may not have known his exact year of birth either. There is no telling who put the date of 1868 on his original grave marker. From what I have read, he is buried in Hamilton because Hico either couldn't or didn't want to pay for his burial. It wasn't until many years later that anyone cared about his claiming to be Billy the Kid, since his grave marker didn't acknowledge that fact.
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