|
Post by wannabe12 on Apr 23, 2018 21:18:08 GMT -5
Not sure that this belongs in the Bogus Brushy Bill discussion, but it does contradict the claim that Brushy was the only one known to go by "Texas Kid". After Thain posted on Facebook a story that tells about the "Johnson County War", that mentions the Texas Kid, I contacted the Wyoming State Archives to see what they might be able to share on the subject. This is part of the original story .
“Johnson County War from Wyoming Tales and Trails . . . Meanwhile, at the KC, a modest establishment consisting of little more than a cabin and a stable, there were four occupants, Nate Champion; Nick Ray, an unemployed itinerant Missouri cowboy, perhaps "working the line;" and two trappers, Ben Jones and Bill Walker, spending the night because of the raging blizzard. Wyoming, because of distances, desolation, and loneliness, has had a tradition of hospitality. Thus, travelers were always welcome for a meal. In the winter before spring roundup when there was little work, waddies or itinerant cowboys would "work the grub line" by stopping at cabins and ranches where they knew they could receive a warm meal and be welcome. “During the predawn hours, the expedition occupied the stable, a creek bed and ravine near the cabin and lay in wait. In the morning, Jones came out to get a pail of water and was promptly captured by the self-styled "regulators." Walker came out looking for his partner and was also taken. Champion busied himself fixing breakfast and Ray emerged to get firewood. A shot, allegedly fired by a young regulator, D. E. "the Texas Kid" Brooke hit Ray. The Kid was so called because he was barely old enough to shave. [Note: The bold and underlined sections of this paragraph are for emphasis.] Champion grabbed Ray, pulling him back into the cabin. “During the day, Champion and the "regulators" exchanged shots. During lulls, Champion kept a log in an old notebook, later printed by Sam Clover: “Me and Nick was getting breakfast when the attack took place. Two men was with us- Bill Jones and another man. The old man went after water and did not come back. His friend went to see what was the matter and he did not come back. Nick started out and I told him to look out, that I thought there was someone at the stable and would not let them come back. “Nick is shot but not dead yet. He is awful sick. I must go and wait on him. “It is now about two hours since the first shot. Nick is still alive. “Boys, there is bullets coming like hail. They are shooting from the stable and river and back of the house. “Them fellows is in such shape I can’t get at them. They are shooting from the stable and river and back of the house. Nick is dead, he died about 9 o'clock. I see a smoke down at the stable. I think they have fired it. I don't think they intend to let me get away this time.
Regardless, having located what seemed to be the Texas Kid’s name, D. E. Brooke, I obtained *“The State of Wyoming vs. Frank M. Canton, Joseph Elliott, Wm. J. Clarke, et. al., Laramie County, Wyoming Territory, Criminal Court Criminal Case (Doc. 3, No. 365) records. And, upon reading that material, I confirmed that a “D. E. Brooke”, indeed, was one of those Johnson County War “invaders”, who had been transferred from Buffalo, in Johnson County, to Cheyenne, the Wyoming Territory’s capital city, where the defendants were to be tried in court for the death of “Nathan D. Champion”. I found, too, in these trial records that, according to the Counsel for Defendants, “D. E. Brooke” was an alias while “D. E. Booker” is his real name.As for the “Invaders’” trial here in Cheyenne, various media sources report that after several weeks, the prosecution exhausted the available jurors in Laramie County without obtaining the required twelve men. Johnson County faced with the mounting costs of the legal action, agreed to a deal and, on January 21, 1893, a jury was sworn in, the case dismissed and the invaders, including your subject, went free. And your subject, who was publicly accused of murdering Nick Ray, obviously was included those who went without legal punishment. Oops! I almost forgot to add that one additional internet clue lead me to the following “Johnson County War from Wyoming Tales and Trails” reference re your subject’s ultimate fate: “The "Texas Kid," was hanged after he killed his wife following an argument relating to his adventures in Wyoming. (http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/johnson3.html - Note: Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to confirm his death or its cause -- i. e. legal execution or lynching – or where it took place.)
Here are some of the sources:
The following cost-free Wyoming Newspaper Project website (http://wyonewspapers.org/), which offers all the newspapers printed in Wyoming from the mid-1800s to the mid-1920s in an easily searchable format, also proved of some help. Though no “D. E. Brooke” appears there, I did find one additional news item re the “Texas Kid”: “Stockmen’s Case”, Buffalo Bulletin, Buffalo, WY, Aug. 4, 1892, p. 1, col. 5 (http://pluto.wyo.gov/awweb/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=3).*(Note: This criminal court case consists of approximately 147 pages and you can order it (25-cents per digital copy or 50-cents per hard copy page) either by sending your check in the required amount to the Wyoming State Archives, Barrett Building, 2301 Central Avenue, Cheyenne, WY 82002. Or you can expedite the process by calling 307-777-7826 and placing your order by sharing your Visa or MasterCard credit card identification number and related information with the WSA staffer, who takes your call. We also can offer a “Johnson County Cattle Raiders – Prisoners at Ft. D. A. Russell-1892” photo (see atch), with identifying names [D. E. Brooke's name, you note,is mispelled]; unfortunately however, those “Names are not in order”, so you will be unable to find your subject’s image. (Source: “Johnson County War” folder, Neg. #9516 – Note: If you would like high resolution (600 d.p.i.) digitized copy of this picture, you also can order it for $8.00. The photo will electronically be scanned at 600 d.p.i. and sent to you via the internet.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Apr 25, 2018 21:12:11 GMT -5
Great post, wannabe12. Good research is always more credible than assumptions. Not every published Texas Kid story was about Brushy Bill. Not every Spanish American War medal indicated service in Cuba. Several perceived similarities between Pvt. William S. Murphy and Brushy Bill became meaningless when Pvt. Murphy’s pension application was found.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on May 27, 2018 0:01:22 GMT -5
Conflicting stories: Elpaso Times 11-26-1950 alleges that Brushy told Gallegos a different story about the night at Maxwell's. Supposedly Brushy said Barlow went into the house and someone asked "who is it?" And Barlow answered "Billy" and was shot. This sounds much more believable especially considering Brushy had already said he received his mouth wound from a different incident when interviewed at Meramec Caverns. Also the article mentions that Severo Gallegos had supposedly died in a train accident but that according to this Severo the other one was a cousin of Severo....sound a little familiar?
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on May 27, 2018 0:06:02 GMT -5
Also in the El Paso post 11-25-1950 Martile Able allegedly claims she is 89 years old which doesn't match the birth year of 1873 provided by TTT but she claims the last time she saw Billy was before Garrett supposedly shot him...which doesn't match the information in her affidavit.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on May 27, 2018 0:09:12 GMT -5
P.s. Both these newspapers can be found in the Stl Historical Archives place (I forget the actual name) under Billy the Kid collection.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 27, 2018 11:19:45 GMT -5
Thain, Spelling, and Martelia's age, varies in different reports. Her age on the 1880 census page was 9, but was transcribed as 7.
"Also in the El Paso post 11-25-1950 Martile Able allegedly claims she is 89 years old which doesn't match the birth year of 1873 provided by TTT but she claims the last time she saw Billy was before Garrett supposedly shot him...which doesn't match the information in her affidavit.
1880 Lampasas Co, TX, Martelia Bilberry, age 9 ca. 1871 1900 Taylor Co, TX, Telia Abel, age 25, ca. 1875 1910 El Paso Co, TX, Matilde Abel, age 40, ca. 1870 1920 El Paso Co, TX. M. D. Abel, age 49, ca. 1871 1930 El Paso Co, TX, Martile Abel, age 59, ca. 1871 1940 El Paso Co, TX, Martile Able, age 69, ca. 1871 FAG, Concordia Cemetery, El Paso Co, TX, 1873 1952 TX death certificate, Martha Ables, age 78, 1873
Martelia was probably born 2 November 1870 or 1871.
|
|
|
Post by Nik Oak on May 27, 2018 15:42:26 GMT -5
Conflicting stories: Elpaso Times 11-26-1950 alleges that Brushy told Gallegos a different story about the night at Maxwell's. Supposedly Brushy said Barlow went into the house and someone asked "who is it?" And Barlow answered "Billy" and was shot. This sounds much more believable especially considering Brushy had already said he received his mouth wound from a different incident when interviewed at Meramec Caverns. Also the article mentions that Severo Gallegos had supposedly died in a train accident but that according to this Severo the other one was a cousin of Severo....sound a little familiar? How would Brushy know this is he wasn't there?
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on May 27, 2018 17:02:39 GMT -5
I guess when Pete, Pat, Poe, and McKinney reported what happened ... someone told Brushy.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jun 20, 2018 15:21:27 GMT -5
Henry H. Anthony “The Return of the Outlaw Billy the Kid”, pp.152 - 154 Information in a 1990 letter from James Anthony is found on those pages. The anecdotal story of Henry H. Anthony, supposedly a former Pinkerton detective and U S Marshall, cannot be verified. The letter was written by George James Anthony (25 May 1931 - 3 Jan 2004). Younger brothers were Billy Joe Anthony (1834 - 1975) and Dale Leroy Anthony (1939 - 27 May 2016). Their father was John Harrison Anthony (28 June 1898 - 18 March 1961). The grandfather, coal miner and U S Marshall, was Harrison Hobech Anthony (9 Aug 1862 - 5 Jan 1955). FAG Memorial #158348684 Census info: Harrison, a laborer, lived in Archer County in 1920 and 1930 census. Both records show that he was born in Pennsylvania about 1863. He married Mary Colgan in Archer County 14 Feb 1896. She died 18 Jan 1902; buried in Chillicothe, TX, cemetery. Henry returned to Clarion Co, PA; married Alice Stanford in 1904; his oldest child, John Harrison Anthony, was born 28 June 1898; Harrison probably took John Harrison Anthony back to PA with him after his wife died, for John registered for the WWI draft 12 Sep 1918 while a resident of Oxford, Clarion Co, PA. John was a resident of Archer County, TX, 16 months later when the 1920 census was recorded. Henry/Harry/Harrison Anthony has not been found in 1870, 1880, 1900, 1910, or 1940 census records. p. 154 "When James Anthony's father tried to restrain the old man, the former marshal stated, 'I'd know that son of a bitch Will Bonney anywhere. Ask him if I wouldn't.'" Henry McCarty was killed in 1881 when Harrison Anthony was 19. How could a boy born in Pennsylvania in 1862 recognize Billy the Kid who was living in New Mexico after 1873? There is a webpage listing U S Marshals killed in the line of duty. The list includes George Hindman, William Brady, Robert Olinger, and Frank Dalton. www.usmarshals.gov/history/roll_call.htm. To view the 56 pages listing other marshals who served, click on U.S. Marshals 1789 - 1989 near the bottom of the right hand column to download the entire list. Burrington Anthony is the only Anthony listed. When was Harrison employed by the Pinkertons? When was Harrison a Marshall?
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Jul 4, 2018 16:54:24 GMT -5
I guess they knew each other because they were the same age. I guess Anthony used aliases like many others. Idk. You make some good points tho.
|
|
|
Post by 44colt on Jan 22, 2019 21:15:07 GMT -5
Authors Sonnichsen & Morrison, Hefner and Valdez, Jameson, Tunstill, Hall, and Edwards all hoped to find evidence that would support Brushy Bill's story.
Hey TTT, I never "hoped to find evidence that would support Brushy Bill's story". Pretty ridiculous and unfounded comment there buddy. For the record, I don't care if Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy the Kid or not. What I do care about is fairness and the truth.
Now, aside from that, I am actually posting to agree with you. I have growing suspicions that a number of people that may have supported Brushy over the years, starting with when Mr. Morrison passed away, may not have been honest with information. A lot of people have already come to this same conclusion and I'm not naming names or making specific allegations but I will say there is a lot of unsubstantiated information out there and people should do their own diligence.
That said, I'm not talking about Mr. Morrison, who was a man of impeccable integrity. Morrison and the law firm that submitted the petition to Mabry handled their case professionally and properly. A lot of stuff has been written after the fact by people that have no idea what they are talking about and a lot of people attempted to jump on the bandwagon and to supposedly "help" but who knows what their motivations were (or are).
I am not talking about people proposing theories or possibilities. I'm talking about people inventing fake facts. I have found things that directly contradict published statements made by people who are supposedly authorities on Brushy. I have also had these kind of people tell me things that I know for a fact are not true. Anyway, maybe there will always be something (fake genealogy, fake secret documents, etc.) from people that want attention or want to sell books, but if they are not true these things aren't helpful an eventually will be proven fake. I just wish people would stop messing around and shoot straight when they claim they have a source or a "fact".
I think this board has made the biggest positive contribution to Brushy by hosting people that do primary research and share the findings in an open forum where there can be debate. There is no shutting down of contrarian opinion or banning people for not liking their favorite author. Anyway, just my $.02
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jan 22, 2019 23:14:19 GMT -5
Daniel, Thanks for a straightforward critique. Your .02$ is worth $100. Fairness and truth should be everyone’s goal. “That said, I'm not talking about Mr. Morrison, who was a man of impeccable integrity. “ I can agree with that, although Morrison fudged his evidence with the affidavit of DeWitt Travis who was born long after 1881; the affidavit of Mrs Martile Able, who was living in Lampasas County, Texas, in 1880; and the affidavit of Robert E Lee, who in his sworn affidavit said he first met William Bonney in 1889. Morrison made no absolute claim that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. He made two significant statements. First, Morrison and Brushy went on a “pilgrimage” to “identify this man”. Definite proof was lacking. In his closing sentence, Morrison said, “ - if Brushy Bill was not Billy the Kid, who was he?” Morrison realized that Brushy’s story was not substantiated by any facts prior to, or after, the Lincoln County war. “Authors Sonnichsen & Morrison, Hefner and Valdez, Jameson, Tunstill, Hall, and Edwards all hoped to find evidence that would support Brushy Bill's story.” Why did Morrison take Brushy to west Texas and New Mexico unless he was trying to find evidence to prove that Brushy was Billy the Kid” Why did Jameson include the inaccurate genealogy chart of Brushy Bill in “The Return of the Outlaw Billy the Kid” without researching the validity of the information he found in Tunstill’s notes? Why did Jameson claim, without proof, that a trunk in the possession of Bill Allison had belonged to Brushy?
Why did Jameson claim, without proof, that an old Bible found in the trunk had belonged to James Henry Roberts? Why do authors skip the first step of an investigation, and begin with the belief that Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid rather that trying to determine the identity of Brushy Bill?
|
|
|
Post by 44colt on Jan 23, 2019 8:21:13 GMT -5
You are conflating everyone together and not everyone has the same methods or motives. I can tell you for a fact that no one has seen or listened to Morrison's personal audio tape recordings. They may have seen copies, but anyone who says they have listened to his personal audio tapes after 1955 is wrong or not being honest.
Back to motives. As far as I am concerned, I would have been just as content to prove Brushy was a fraud. My approach was to look at the mundane things he said to Morrison to see if there was any corroboration in the historical record. There were a lot of things I couldn't find. No big outlaw dance at roundtop mountain. No marshal named Tony McClure. Etc. etc. However, there were a lot of things that did find corroboration in the historical record. Now, Brushy could have heard about some of these things and placed himself in those events when he wasn't there, but I say that in my book. As for the Texas Kid issue, I think I say something like "no one has ever presented themselves to history as the Texas Kid". That could probably be worded better. What I didn't say was "Brushy was the only Texas Kid". There were probably lots of Texas Kids. What I meant was that no one else claimed to be in NY in the spring of 1901 doing a performance as the Texas Kid. He is not competing with anyone. Its not like multiple people coming out and saying "I'm Charlie Chaplin in the movie...that's me" and we have to choose one. He was the sole claimant. Again, that probably could have been worded better. The point was supposed to be that he said he was there at that time using that name and apparently he was or he was a dang lucky guesser. Anyway, back to Morrison. Morrison did not believe Brushy was the Kid at first. He thought he was too young, etc. Brushy showed him his evidence. Teeth in a jar in a trunk, slipping handcuffs, bullet and knife wounds, the scarf, etc. etc. He knew the details of the Lincoln County War intimately, etc. What everyone also forgets is that Brushy knew details of the Spanish Revolution also. They spoke in detail about that. Morrison was fluent in Spanish and could talk to Brushy in Spanish. Brushy claimed he could take Morrison to people that could verify who he was and Morrison accepted his case with the support and consent of his law office. We can't confuse the process for proving something to a court with the process for proving something to the public. Affidavits are evidence to a court. Morrison had a lot more affidavits than he published or submitted to the governor. He himself excluded some that he didnt feel relevant. My personal opinion is that the value of the DeWitt Travis affidavit is that their fathers had served together under Quantrill, that they were family friends, and that Brushy wasn't Oliver Pleasant Roberts and he had known that his entire life. As for Martile Abel, let's not confuse what authors said vs. what the affidavit says. Let's say you are a cameraman on a movie set with Dwayne Johnson, whom you have never seen before or only knew as Dwayne Johnson. It just so happens a bunch of old Wrestlers stop by to see him, whom you do know for a fact to be pro wrestlers. You see them all hanging out with Johnson like he is one of them and calling him the Rock. They all tell you "this is the Rock! He was a big wrestler years ago. He is one of us." You accept he is the Rock because the community says so and you have no reason to believe otherwise. Keep in mind Abel would have met him not that long after he was supposedly killed, a decade or so. Again, one takeaway here is that he was not Oliver P. Roberts then. She knew him as "the Kid" way before 1950. Lastly, let's not forget that Morrison wrote a book (unpublished) about Pancho Villa and verified a lot of that stuff that Brushy told him also to his satisfaction (this was completed after Brushy's death). Of course, anyone can say that they don't believe Morrison and that is one thing, but don't conflate him with the people that tried to come after him. I've read his private papers, many of which are in the archives, and he was not a fraud. Likewise Sonnichsen was not a fraud. Morrison did exactly what he should have done given the time and client he had. He has been treated very unfairly over the years.
After Morrison passed away, a lot of people tried to help the story...in my opinion in some cases inventing evidence or making up facts. This has not helped anyone. The whole reason I wrote my book is because I wasn't satisfied with what was out there, a lot of which I didn't even read. I did not rely on anyone else's information except for my own research and Alias Billy the Kid. (thank God). After my book came out in 2014, there was a slew of activity in 2015. Bill O'Reilly picked it up. Mysteries at the Museum picked it up (first in 2015, then again this year), etc. Now, everyone is coming out of the woodwork with "new" information on Brushy. New facebook groups, etc. Many have reached out to me. I'm all for fresh eyes and new information and I have stated on camera that I want people smarter than me to come along and pick up the torch, but what I'm seeing is more hype and poor research methods. I'm concerned that there may be some fraud thrown in there too. Let's not go backwards to the dark ages of 1980s-early 2010s where Brushy was an alternate religion to the Ft. Sumner cult. Let's stick with facts and move the conversation forward without a lot of nonsense and hype.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jan 23, 2019 15:47:32 GMT -5
Daniel, “Let's stick with facts and move the conversation forward without a lot of nonsense and hype. “
I fully agree with that.
Some facts: Oliver P. Roberts was born 26 August 1879. Census records, and the letter of his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittman confirm that fact. Brushy Bill said he was born 26 August 1878 when he registered for the WWI draft as Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Brushy Bill said he married Mollie Brown, Loutecia Ballard, and Melinda Allison. Oliver Roberts married Mollie Brown; Ollie Roberts signed the death certificate of Loutecia Roberts; and O. L. Roberts married Melinda E. Allison, all confirmed by state vital records. Brushy said he returned the belongings of his dead cousin Ollie to the boy’s family in Sulphur Springs (county seat of Hopkins County). Oliver P. Roberts was in the household of his parents in the 1900 census of Hopkins County, TX. No record of Brushy Bill Roberts, or William Henry Roberts has been found. No record of the death or burial of Oliver P Roberts has been found.
Is Martile’s information credible? Martelia Bilberry, about 9 years old, lived in Lampasas County, Texas, in 1880. Martile said, p. 112, “I had not seen Billy since before Pat Garrett claimed he shot him.”
“Keep in mind Abel would have met him not that long after he was supposedly killed, a decade or so.” Only individuals who had known or seen William Bonney prior to 1881 could provide credible, positive, identification of Brushy Bill as Billy the Kid.
“My personal opinion is that the value of the DeWitt Travis affidavit is that their fathers had served together under Quantrill, that they were family friends, and that Brushy wasn't Oliver Pleasant Roberts and he had known that his entire life.”
Elbert DeWitt Travis Sr., born 1846 or 1847 in Mississippi, enlisted August 15, 1864 at Augusta, Mississippi, and served for about 9 months in Co C, 3rd Batt, Mississippi Cavalry. He was paroled 16 May 1865 when he was about 19.
Did Elbert leave Mississippi and travel to Missouri to serve with Quantrill when he was about 18, and then return to Mississippi to join the CSA?
|
|
|
Post by 44colt on Jan 23, 2019 16:35:21 GMT -5
Daniel, “Let's stick with facts and move the conversation forward without a lot of nonsense and hype. “ I fully agree with that. Some facts: Oliver P. Roberts was born 26 August 1879. Census records, and the letter of his niece, Geneva Roberts Pittman confirm that fact. Brushy Bill said he was born 26 August 1878 when he registered for the WWI draft as Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Brushy Bill said he married Mollie Brown, Loutecia Ballard, and Melinda Allison. Oliver Roberts married Mollie Brown; Ollie Roberts signed the death certificate of Loutecia Roberts; and O. L. Roberts married Melinda E. Allison, all confirmed by state vital records. Brushy said he returned the belongings of his dead cousin Ollie to the boy’s family in Sulphur Springs (county seat of Hopkins County). Oliver P. Roberts was in the household of his parents in the 1900 census of Hopkins County, TX. No record of Brushy Bill Roberts, or William Henry Roberts has been found. No record of the death or burial of Oliver P Roberts has been found. Thanks for reminding me that I'm wasting my time.
On the Dewitt Travis issue, the affidavit he says "fought together in the civil war". In my haste I put "Quantrill" but I misspoke. In my book I explain extensively how it is possible they did serve together under Sul Ross.
Ok. I'm done. Just wanted to speak out against fake facts but somehow you went right back to your same old tired arguments. Who is Geneva Roberts Pitman? How do you know she wrote that letter? Do you own it? Seen a copy? Had she been drinking on the night in question? Did she ever renounce the letter? Confirm it? Does it match what she said in her diary? To her friends? How can we know that letter is real? How do we really know Brushy said he married Mollie Brown? Loutecia Ballard? Melinda Allison? How do we know that someone didn't forge the state vital records? How is it possible there is "no record of Brushy Bill Roberts" when there is a picture of him with Governor Mabry and newspaper articles back to 1933 mentioning him. You don't think the person Morrison met was known as Brushy Bill Roberts? No record of him? What evidence do you have that there is no record of him? Can you prove a negative?
You, sir, are ridiculous....and it is obvious I am wasting my time here.
|
|