|
Post by Wayne Land on Jul 8, 2017 12:41:38 GMT -5
Great point Thain. I've tried to say that before but you said it best. I'll add that Brushy had to have gotten his information either from his Aunt Catherine or from his father and who knows whether he was able to repeat their words exactly. For any members that do not have a copy of Alias BTK, what he said was "Sometime in the late 50's my father moved to Buffalo Gap, Taylor County, Texas. I was born at Buffalo Gap on December 31, 1859, the last hour of the last day of the year." There is absolutely nothing about that statement that can be refuted since there is a Taylor County and an area within that county known as Buffalo Gap and the area did exist in 1859. Brushy did not call it a "city". He did not say when it became a city or town, etc. Even if it was not officially settled in 1859 (questionable) and was home to an indian population (questionable) that doesn't mean Brushy's parents could not have been trying to settle there as of the late 50's.
I suspect Catherine (or his father) told him he was born there using such words as "we were living in the area they call Buffalo Gap when you were born". This is the problem with getting at the truth about Brushy. The naysayers pick apart everything he ever said or "allegedly" said and as soon as they find any single word that doesn't make sense "to them" they think they've found the smoking gun that proves he was not who he said he was because he uttered one word that "might have been" incorrect historically.
If all of us were subjected to such scrutiny I fear there wouldn't be a single one of us who could be trusted to say who we really are. Every time you met a person and they introduced themselves you'd have to go search the census to find out who they really were. It's exasperating to say the least.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 8, 2017 16:26:07 GMT -5
Daniel, Not all Billy the Kid researchers investigated the life of Billy the Kid in the same way.
Some researchers tried to find the origin of Billy the Kid. He was identified in New Mexico Court records as William Bonney or William Antrim, and as William H. Bonney in the Coroner’s Jury Report. Philip Rasch and Robert Mullin located the 1873 marriage record of William H. Antrim and Catherine McCarty in 1953. In 1964, Waldo E. Koop located the Sedgwick County, Kansas, records that showed that both Catherine McCarty and William H. Antrim once owned property there.
Other researchers only searched for evidence that supported Brushy Bill’s story. Morrison secured affidavits from 5 individuals who swore that they believed Brushy Bill was Billy the Kid. Tunstill located Martha Heath, proving she existed, and corresponded with her descendants. Tunstill found a Benjamin Roberts that received 320 acres in Navarro County. He also found warranty deeds proving O. P. Roberts had purchased, and then sold, 80 acres in Sevier County, Arkansas. Jameson cited information found in family Bibles.
Other researchers looked for evidence to verify or disprove the story told by Brushy Bill. Jim Johnson concluded that neither John Miller nor Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy the Kid. Gale Cooper also concluded that neither John Miller nor Brushy Bill Roberts was Billy the Kid.
No meaningful research supports many novels, articles, movies, and television programs that capitalized on the public’s fascination with the life and death of Billy the Kid.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 11, 2017 13:39:14 GMT -5
“Regarding affidavits, it is a fact of history that Severo Gallegos knew Billy the Kid and also a fact of history that he swore his oath that Brushy was Billy the Kid. “
Daniel, you are correct. I am pleased that you brought that to my attention. Severo Gallegos was about 10 years old and lived in Lincoln County, New Mexico, in 1880. The entire Sonnichsen description of Morrison’s solicitation of an affidavit from Severo includes the following: “Upon arriving in Ruidoso, I visited with Mr. Gallegos. While talking to him, I told him that I had an old friend in my room that I would like for him to meet. At my room I introduced my friend as William H. Bonney.”
Now all Severo had to do was sign the affidavit, since Morrison had informed him that Brushy Bill was William Bonney. Even after Morrison’s biased introduction, Severo told Morrison that Brushy Bill was not old enough to be Billy the Kid. Morrison, reluctant to accept Severo’s conclusion, then encouraged, urged, or coerced Severo to meet with Brushy Bill again. After peering into Brushy Bill’s eyes, he signed the affidavit.
The affidavit might have been credible had Morrison introduced Brushy Bill to Severo in this way: “Severo, I would like for you to meet someone that you have not seen since you were about 10 years old. Do you know who he is?”
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Jul 11, 2017 23:17:48 GMT -5
Spin it the way you want. Leave out Severo's comment that only Billy The Kid had eyes like that. I don't believe for a second that Severo would have signed that affidavit unless he truly believed Brushy was Billy. The rest of your argument doesn't hold water for me.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 14, 2017 15:48:40 GMT -5
"By the way, you should be pleased to know that the truth is winning and more and more people are coming over to Brushy's side every day...and it will not stop. "
Daniel, I admire your optimism, and disagree with your conclusion.
No credible evidence has been found that supports Brushy Bill’s story prior to his arrival in New Mexico.
No credible evidence has been found that supports Brushy Bill’s story after 14 July 1881.
Brushy Bill's information about the Lincoln County War is very similar to the research of Walter Noble Burns, published in 1926, "The Saga of Billy the Kid".
The genealogical chart published by Jameson is a composite of actual and fictional relationships and individuals. Pvt. William S. Murphy, Troop M, 1st Volunteer Cavalry, died in 1928, and was not Brushy Bill.
Brushy Bill told Morrison some of his aliases. Oliver Roberts was not one of them.
All credible evidence indicates Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts. He married Mollie Brown as Oliver Roberts. He was recorded in the 1920 census as Oliver P. Roberts. Brushy Bill bought and sold land in Sevier County, Arkansas, as O. P. Roberts. The WWI Draft Registration Card of Brushy Bill provided his full name and date of birth. Oliver Pleasant Roberts was born 26 August 1878.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Jul 14, 2017 22:18:22 GMT -5
And the neighbor identified him as Billy when Gallegos wasn't home.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Jul 14, 2017 22:22:03 GMT -5
And we already proven in numerous places now that his story does not match Walter Noble Burns story except in the places where Burns was correct. Burns did a lot of research. Why TTT do you not understand this simple thing? There are so many stupid arguments against Brushy and they don't hold up anymore. Just let them go. It's over.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 15, 2017 17:37:25 GMT -5
Thain, I haven't found this in "Alias Billy the Kid". "And the neighbor identified him as Billy when Gallegos wasn't home." Please direct me to the page where this statement is found. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by Texas Truth Teller on Jul 15, 2017 17:44:10 GMT -5
Thain, "Just let them go. It's over."
It's not over 'til it's over.
It is a fact that Brushy Bill married Mollie Brown, and the name of the groom was Oliver Roberts. It is a fact that Oliver P. Roberts, son of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson, lived in Van Zandt County.
Where is the proof that Brushy Bill Roberts and Oliver P. Roberts were two different men?
|
|
|
Post by Wayne Land on Jul 16, 2017 0:14:28 GMT -5
Not quite correct. If I might just restate the assertions in a more accurate phrase.
It is a fact that Brushy Bill married Mollie Brown, and the groom said his name was Oliver Roberts. It is a fact that someone who claimed to be Oliver P. Roberts, son of Henry Oliver Roberts and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson, lived in Van Zandt County.
Where is the proof that Brushy Bill Roberts and Oliver P. Roberts were the same man?
|
|
|
Post by mikegolfpro on Jul 20, 2017 6:36:42 GMT -5
Just finished reading the paperback version which was excellent. The information contained in the book is fascinating. I will have to pick up the hardback version now. LOL! My local library did not have this book which they went out and got for me which was awesome. Just reading Brushy's actual words and the other information that I did not know was incredible. Some of the aliases that he used was amazing. Some of the information from Brushy was difficult to follow but overall a very interesting book. I read this book in just a few days. I had just finished reading Pat Garrett's book or should I say Ash Upson and didn't really enjoy that too much to be honest. I did read the version with Nolan's notes which were very informative. Well this book by Edwards is excellent reading and look forward to reading the hardback version if I can get my hands on that one.
|
|
|
Post by montanas on Jul 20, 2017 16:11:20 GMT -5
"Severo told Morrison that Brushy Bill was not old enough to be Billy the Kid" What I find fascinating is that Severo's first response was that Roberts was to young to be the kid. Shouldn't it have been, "No way. The kid was killed." This tells me that at the very least Severo believed the kid survived.
|
|
|
Post by mckinley412 on Jul 21, 2017 18:00:14 GMT -5
Texas Truth-Teller. The story about the Sedillo girl is an amazing story. You asked about Brushy being identified as the Kid when Gallegos wasn't home. The story is in Killed in New Mexico Died in Texas. The girl asked Brushy what his old sweetheart's name was. Brushy told her the right answer and it proved to her he was the Kid. She wrote Tunstill a letter about it. Search Sedillo girl on this site also.
|
|
carl7
2 - 19 Posts
Posts: 3
|
Post by carl7 on Jul 24, 2017 6:30:22 GMT -5
What does the new cover look like on
Billy the Kid: An Autobiography-Daniel a Edwards (2014)
|
|
|
Post by clydec on Jul 24, 2017 10:43:18 GMT -5
his is the cover of the book.
|
|