Brushy Bill's wives

[Texas Truth Teller]

It is really difficult to prove something when there is no evidence, or facts, just the story of an old man wanting to be somebody like his good friend, J. Frank Dalton who gained notoriety by claiming to be Jesse W. James a year before Oliver P. Roberts decided to become Billy the Kid.

Neither you, nor anyone else, will ever prove
1. that Billy the Kid survived after the night of July 14, 1881.
2. that Brushy Bill was born in Taylor County, Texas.
3. that Brushy Bill was born the last hour of the last day of 1859.
4. that Brushy Bill was the son of J. H. "Wild Henry" Roberts
5. that Brushy Bill was the son of Mary Adeline Dunn.
6. that Mary Adeline Dunn was the half-sister of Kathrine Bonney.
7. that Brushy Bill enlisted in the Rough Riders and was in Cuba.
8. that Brushy Bill was a deputy U. S. Marshal in the Indian territory.
9. that Brushy Bill rode with Pancho Villa and Carranzo.
10. that Brushy Bill was a member of the anti-horse thief association.
ad infinitum

What you can prove is that Oliver Pleasant Roberts married Mollie Brown. What you can prove is that Oliver Roberts was born about 1879 based on his reported age in the 1920 and 1930 census, and his World War I Draft Registration Card.

[Wayne Land]

You are right again. Now consider this. Iif I were to tell you I had an Aunt named Elsie Bee and you wanted to doubt that, you might go through all the census records and such looking for her. You wouldn't be able to find her, but I know she existed because I met her and visited with her on several occasions. Your exhaustive searching would turn up no proof of her relation to me so you could insist I was making it all up. But I know better. I could tell you stories about how she could lay both hands flat on the floor without bending her knees, or how when I first met her she ate with her fingers because she didn't know how to use utensils. I could tell you about her chicken farm. And you'd probably still say I was making it all up, simply because you could find no record of her relation to me and possibly not even of her existence. Go ahead, prove I'm lying. And while you're at it, prove Brushy was lying. You can't.

[mckinley412]

I could prove something if I had the original photo of 14 year old Brushy or could do DNA testing on Brushy against Oliver's parents.

[clydec]

If we could get the original tintype photo of Brushy when he was 29 and get it tested for age then we would know. If they could date the picture back to 1888 or'89 that would prove that brushy was not Oliver P.

[Texas Truth Teller]

"And while you're at it, prove Brushy was lying. You can't."

Wayne, Brushy Bill was a story teller and entertainer, and not well acquainted with the truth. Have you ever read what Sonnichsen had to say about Brushy Bill's story?

"It is a wild and woolly narrative. He pictures himself traveling all over the West making a living riding outlaw horses, serving as a frontier peace officer, working for the Anti-Horse Thief organization in Oklahoma, running a traveling rodeo show, soldiering, and ranching. He makes his age out to be eight years less than it would have been if he fought in the Lincoln County feud, and telescopes events that happened in the seventies with others that must have occurred in the eighties and nineties. MUCH OF IT MAY BE FICTION. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE ABOUT NOW TO SAY HOW MUCH OF IT IS TRUE, AND IT WOULD TAKE YEARS AND A LOT OF MONEY TO FIND OUT."

Sonnichsen doubted the veracity of Brushy Bill's story. A doubt well founded, since nothing that Brushy Bill said about his personal life can be confirmed with information currently available on the internet. And yes, Brushy Bill did know many details about events in Lincoln County that were published in "The Saga of Billy the Kid". Yes, he briefly owned 80 acres in Sevier County, Arkansas. Yes, Mollie Brown, Loutecia Ballard, and Melinda were all married to a man named Roberts. And you can't prove that man was William Henry Roberts, or that William Henry Roberts existed anywhere other than in Brushy Bill's imagination.

[mckinley412]

Soldiering and ranching isn't that wild and wooly. What do you think the real Billy the Kid would have done if he survived 1881?

[Wayne Land]

"MUCH OF IT "MAY" BE FICTION. IT IS "IMPOSSIBLE" ABOUT NOW TO SAY HOW MUCH OF IT IS TRUE". He wasn't suggesting none of it was true. And he didn't make a statement whether he believed Brushy was the real Billy The Kid. I've seen other sources that support the idea that Sonnichsen did believe Brushy was The Kid.

I already said many times that I believe parts of his story were either exaggerated or completely made up. But that doesn't prove he wasn't exactly who he said he was. You know that and I know that.

[Wayne Land]

BTW. TTT, were you able to prove I did or did not have an Aunt named Elsie Bee who ran a chicken farm?

[Texas Truth Teller]

"BTW. TTT, were you able to prove I did or did not have an Aunt named Elsie Bee who ran a chicken farm?"

Wayne,
I believe I once read, "Ask a stupid question, and get a stupid answer."

[Wayne Land]

Well, a "stupid answer" I did get. I guess that means you couldn't prove it. However, I disagree about the question being stupid. I think you already understand my point but I'll restate for clarification, just to be sure. If I had a relative, a real live relative, who can not be located on the census or connected to me in anyway, then Brushy could have had them too. It is possible. BTW, aunt Elsie Bee was real. She was the illegitimate daughter of my Grandfather Land. Even my father didn't know she existed until he was nearly 50 years of age. But she knew about him and contacted him for help when I was still a child. Now, see if you can find her. I still don't think you will.

[Texas Truth Teller]

Wayne, why the obsession with census records? There are more important questions to be answered.

History may be wrong. Brushy Bill’s story might be true. Until each of these questions can be answered “Yes”, Brushy Bill’s story remains nothing more than an interesting Texas Tall Tale.

1. Is there conclusive proof that Billy the Kid was alive after 14 July 1881? No.
2. Is there conclusive proof that an official document, the coroners’ report of Billy the Kid’s death, was invalid? No.
3. Is there conclusive proof that Billy Barlow was in Lincoln in July 1881? No.
4. Is there conclusive proof that the 1881 newspaper reports of Billy the Kid’s death were incorrect? No.
5. Is there conclusive proof that J. H. “Wild Henry” Roberts ever existed? No.
6. Is there conclusive proof that Mary Adeline Dunn ever existed? No.
7. Is there conclusive proof that the name of Catherine McCarty was ever Catherine Bonney? No.
8. Is there conclusive proof that Catherine McCarty had a half-sister named Mary Adeline Dunn? No.
9. Is there conclusive proof that Brushy Bill had a half brother, James Roberts? No.
10. Is there conclusive proof that Brushy Bill had a cousin, Martha Heath? No.
11. Is there conclusive proof that Brushy Bill was ever a Pinkerton agent, deputy U S marshal, Texas Ranger, member of the anti-horse thief association, or served in the Rough Riders in Cuba? No.
12. Is there conclusive proof that Oliver P. Roberts and Brushy Bill Roberts were two different men? No.

[Wayne Land]

"1. Is there conclusive proof that Billy the Kid was alive after 14 July 1881?"

Answer: There is much evidence that he was. If there was conclusive proof then we wouldn't be having this discussion and this message board probably wouldn't even exist. Talk about "stupid questions".

BTW, similar answers for all your other questions.

So I take it you couldn't find proof of my Aunt Elsie Bee's existence either. So I guess you think, like Mary Adeline Dunn, Aunt Elsie Bee really is just a figment of an old man's imagination. So try to convince me. Good luck with that.

[R Johnson]

To prove that Brushy was it was not Billy the Kid will go on forever
Even if you had d n a proof making Brushy a 100% match to Billy there will always be the people who dont believe it and say he isn’t.
As for me while there is no DNA proof , there are a lot of other things that for me, prove he was Billy
One that sticks out is, if he was lieing about all of this it would be extremely difficult to remember the lies, word for word and get it write after 70 years. He also wanted so much to get his pardon, why would anyone lieing about this, want ithe pardon so bad?
All the little things he remembered when he was Morrison. And not wanting to go into the old jail, His friends , when meeting them again in later years,said he was Billy and signed affidavits saying he was. The list of little things go on and on. It takes a lot of crumbs to hold a pie shell together. These little things add up to the fact that he was probably Billy

[Dawn]

Mar 8, 2017 13:51:08 GMT -5 Texas Truth Teller said:

Historians that have researched both men have discovered Brushy Bill was only 3 years old when Pat Garret shot Billy The Kid.  Brushy Bill and Billy the kid have different facial features. Looks at the ear lobes and chin. Big difference.

[RonBk]

Here is a photograph of Mollie Brown taken in 1907. 


c1907

Glen Cove, Coleman, Texas, USA

The family of Nancy & John Brown.
Front: Martin, Viola, Perry, Buck & Charlie. Rear: Bill, Molly, John Edward and John Martin (husband of Nancy & father of the pictured children).
(Probably taken soon after Nancy's death in 1907.)