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Post by montanas on Jun 17, 2016 8:52:06 GMT -5
For arguments sake lets assume Brushy was lying about being the kid. Still, even those who believe this to be the case have to admit he knew way to many detailed things about the LCW and kid himself, as well as names of many of those involved. He either had to have been involved or knew someone really well who was. If the latter is the case then Brushy really had a good memory for detail. Anyhow, who could it have been that he knew? Let's assume that the rest of what he said about his life was true. The anti horse thief association, rough riders, buffalo bill show, etc. Were there any people involved in the LCW who were known to be connected to any of those things?
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 17, 2016 15:49:41 GMT -5
i would remain silent but since this site isn't getting much action I hope nobody minds if I comment on something that I have no information about. --We know most of the history of the regulators but it is not something I have studied in depth because Brushy always gets in the way. A lot of the key players got killed and did other stuff and then got killed or whatever, both sides. I'm just getting back into this but it was always my impression that he was not a rough rider but that he served 'with' them. Yes he knew a lot, and you could say even if Morison and Sonnichsen were lying how could they have know so much. Frederick Nolan dissected the escape of the jail and none of his scenarios would fit, only Brushy's. Did he know someone?... He would have had to have know the actual KID IMO to have so many details and then he would have to of known to have the same height, shape, eyes, ears, voice, etc.I guess if somebody wants to doubt then they could say he knew ol' John P Meadows because he tells the same story of the escape as Brushy told it to him (oops, I mean as Billy did) and I believe it was him that said he went back and tried to ffind the gun the Kid left in the tree, just like Brushy said he did. In short, Brushy would have had to read every single thing every published and not published to get his story right and plus he changed some of the main details. If I was a Vulcan I would have to conclude that despite what you hear about his ancestry/family records...he is Billy.
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Post by Wayne Land on Jun 18, 2016 8:29:20 GMT -5
I agree completely. Well said, and thank you for sharing. Sometimes the board is less active, sometimes more, but lots of people are reading whether they answer back or not. Your posts are much appreciated, I'm sure, by many.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 22, 2016 19:14:07 GMT -5
Well, my statement that we know most of the history of the regulators is pretty much ...wrong. I would say in response to the original question that Brushy knew Jim McDaniels or Jesse Evans aka Joe Hines that were involved in the LCW. Jesse knew where Brushy lived and Brushy knew where McDaniels lived so maybe they shared stories with him.
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mrk12
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Post by mrk12 on Aug 13, 2018 19:16:52 GMT -5
I know this probably should be or even could be posted on almost every thread. Here is what people IMO are also not looking at. Brushy/Billy was a 90 year old man. How the heck could he remember so many details of some of those events unless he was truly there. If it was told to him by people there is no way he could have know so many details. Back in my 6th grade year of school, ( long time ago lol ) my English teacher did a little study. She pulled me and 5 other kids out of class, she then proceeded to read a story to the rest of the class and then came out into the hall and read us the same story. One by one she called each of us back in to retail that story to the class. NONE of us told the same story not one of us. We ALL left out details and important ones too. This man knew details and i mean import details about his jailbreak. Way to many for anyone to say he was not there. My point if he was told it to him as a story no way would he remember in that good of details about it.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 13, 2018 21:23:19 GMT -5
mrk12,
Your illustration is valid. All heard the same story, but none could repeat the story accurately.
There is no evidence that Brushy Bill was 90 years old, born 31 December 1859. Unless, of course, you accept his word. There is evidence that he was born in 1878 or 1879 according to information in the 1920 and 1930 census records, and on the WWI registration card he signed as Oliver Pleasant Roberts. Morrison did not say that Brushy Bill assumed the alias of Oliver P Roberts. Others made that assumption to make Brushy's story fit - that he married Mollie Brown, Leticia Ballard, and Lizzie Murrell, and explain the contradictory census and WWI registration information. There is no evidence that Oliver P. Roberts, son of Henry Oliver and Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts, a resident of Van Zandt County, died or departed for parts unknown, a necessity before Brushy could become known Oliver P. Roberts.
Brushy knew many details of Lincoln County events. A book had been published in 1926 with almost the same details. It's possible that he had read that book shortly before meeting Morrison.
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mrk12
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Post by mrk12 on Aug 13, 2018 21:33:34 GMT -5
Anything is possible yes I agree, but highly unlikely in some of the things he has pointed out. For someone to remember all that in that detail is very highly unlikely. I am not saying he is or is not billy. The possibility is there for sure. I wish they would just let the DNA come out and everyone know for once and all, but to find someone related to either billy or brushy is going to be hard. Then to get either state to agree to DNA on the bodies ( which ha is a laugh). Neither state IMO wants the truth, ( and I am a born and raised Texas girl)
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 13, 2018 22:32:13 GMT -5
mrk12,
DNA tests will never happen.
Billy the Kid (Henry McCarty) - no descendants, no known living relatives, no DNA sample
Brushy Bill - an alias of Oliver P. Roberts
Oliver P. Roberts - no descendants, buried in Hamilton County as William Henry Roberts.
Some Roberts relatives still live in Van Zandt County.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 13, 2018 22:58:16 GMT -5
It could happen. The mother of Oliver Roberts would not pass down mitochondrial DNA to Brushy if he wasn't her son. So all you would have to do is test her DNA against Brushy's and see if they are mother and son or not. I have been posting this for several years. It has finally caught on somewhat but is still mostly ignored.
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mrk12
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Post by mrk12 on Aug 13, 2018 23:03:31 GMT -5
Would be nice if they would do the DNA on Brushy to see, but don't think they will allow it. There are some people still there in Texas that could be relatives of Brushy. Would be nice if they would just take it to prove once and for all yes they are related or no they are not. If not then there you go, more proof of what Brushy has been saying along.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 13, 2018 23:17:16 GMT -5
And there is family that believes he was. And she said she might have supported it but previously there was no actual plan that would have proved anything so I don't blame her for being against it one single bit at all. Roy Haw's arguments would not hold up in court. His stuff is for the casual tourist. He doesn't like to talk about it in case you think about contacting him.
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mrk12
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Post by mrk12 on Aug 13, 2018 23:31:56 GMT -5
Does anyone know if there is anyone on Billy's side still alive. Like kids from one of his half siblings. There should be enough DnA to state that they where related or not. Not sure if this has ever came up or even if it is possible or true. Since Billy was allegedly killed by Pat and was an outlaw does his body belong to the state of NM. If so then NW would have the say over the remains not the family.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 13, 2018 23:39:18 GMT -5
No body. No relatives. Billy had lots of girlfriends but no kids, same as Brushy, maybe they were sterile, probably they were the same person.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Aug 14, 2018 10:49:22 GMT -5
It could happen. The mother of Oliver Roberts would not pass down mitochondrial DNA to Brushy if he wasn't her son. So all you would have to do is test her DNA against Brushy's and see if they are mother and son or not. I have been posting this for several years. It has finally caught on somewhat but is still mostly ignored. mckinley412, You are absolutely correct. Exhumation of Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson Roberts and Brushy Bill is probably the only possible source of DNA samples for mitochondrial comparison. Since mitochondrial DNA is matralineal, the daughters, granddaughters, and great-granddaughters of Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson would have the same mitochondrial DNA. Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson had one daughter, Mary Cordelia Roberts (1878 - 1968), who had children. Mary married Irvin Asberry Adams. They had two daughters. Ruby May Adams (1900 - 1993) married Brevard V. Ballard. They had 1 daughter, Anna Merle Ballard, born about 1930. The other daughter, Mary E. Adams, was born about March 1918 in Oklahoma. DNA samples from either of these granddaughters or great-grandaughters would be acceptable if they could be located and agreed to provide DNA samples.
If DNA samples from the grave of Sarah Elizabeth Ferguson and William Henry Roberts/Brushy Bill/Oliver P Roberts matched, that would be convincing proof that Brushy Bill was Oliver P. Roberts.
It could happen, but exhumations are expensive. The State of Texas exhumation requirements would have to be met. The chain of custody could be questioned by skeptics.
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Post by mckinley412 on Aug 15, 2018 21:28:28 GMT -5
Start pitching ideas to TV Channels, movie studios. They can pay for it.
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