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Lost tapes
Sept 28, 2018 20:59:21 GMT -5
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 28, 2018 20:59:21 GMT -5
You can request the records from NARA and they will let you know what it will cost to have them researched, copied , then digitally sent to you. This can be quite pricy. The records I have from the Service Medals list was $125. From what I have been able to find the number of men that were court martialed is not very long for the Rough Riders, if he served in that unit. It is doubtful he would receive a medal for his service if he was court martialed or even if he received a bob tailed discharge. So one is not the truth. His medal, him being a Rough Rider or his discharge story. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, what bothers me most about Brushy’s story is that he had so little physical evidence to prove much of what he claimed he did in his life as Billy and after.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 28, 2018 21:37:10 GMT -5
I personally never thought he was A rough rider. I always thought he served WITH them. But I'm not gonna spend a lot. I order a little bit here and there. And pretty well gonna quit altogether once I move. I'll leave that for someone else. Thanks.
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Lost tapes
Sept 28, 2018 22:22:05 GMT -5
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 28, 2018 22:22:05 GMT -5
The theory that he was assigned in some way to a black regiment or to the Rough Riders when he was not part of that unit is likely not realistic. There would be no need for him to be assigned to break horses in Cuba since the Rough Riders and the 10th (Buffalo Soldiers) that it has been suggested he was transferred to were foot soldiers while in Cuba, because no horses save for the officers were sent with them. It is even less likely he would be moved from unit to unit, more likely it would be from company to company within that unit. The fact that there were horses that needed to be broken was well known while the Rough Riders were in San Antonio. These training drills were open to the public for a time when they arrived because of Roosevelt’s name being attached to them. They were also a regular story in local papers.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 28, 2018 22:48:17 GMT -5
That is from the Lucas Speers and other debunkers but actually that is not true. There are lots of William Roberts and a lot of them are black but I don't think he used the name William or Oliver Roberts. The debunker story was that no horses were brought down there or something. If you dig deeper you will see they brought a lot down there and it is recorded they had the horses jumping off the ships into water and swimming or halfway walking or whatever to the shore. People today don't know about it but Brushy did. That same Speers page said that Selman was not in the Lincoln Co. War or in the area but from what I can tell, he was. Brushy knew that but many people today don't. There were horses there. The records show Calvary units there too anyway. No disrespect.
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Lost tapes
Sept 28, 2018 23:58:44 GMT -5
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 28, 2018 23:58:44 GMT -5
The fact no horses were brought by the Rough Riders is verified by reading Roosevelt’s account of them being shipped without them to Cuba. There were at least 3 companies left behind in Florida with them. One of Roosevelt’s horses drowned when they dropped it just off shore. If there were other units with horses it doesn’t change the Rough Riders not having theirs. Where did Brushy say anything about horses jumping off ships and swimming to shore??, I don’t recall reading that..
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 29, 2018 0:57:57 GMT -5
I didn't say Brushy said anything about horses jumping off ships. History says it. Brushy says a lot were shipped down there. You said one drowned. You said that 'after' I was telling you about how they were having them jumping off ships.
I already said before you said this stuff that I don't think he was a rough rider but that he served with them so you are going off into hypothetical mode ----- you are saying 'where did Brushy say about horses jumping ships, swimming to shore, rough riders didn't have horses, etc...' You have to do more research. I don't know how else to say this with out sounding mean, but .....you have to do A LOT of more research..... like buy more computers and get memberships at different libraries... anything it takes.
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Lost tapes
Sept 29, 2018 6:30:31 GMT -5
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 29, 2018 6:30:31 GMT -5
Wouldn’t take offense to that at all. What I said was Roosevelt’s horse drowned while they were unloading it. That NO other horses were brought for the soldiers only the Officers, it is in just about every book that is considered reliable information about the Rough Riders. I myself always thought they were mounted during the campaign, but were not. Other units may have had horses but these men did not. You can’t just use a blanket statement about horses being there, and assume the Rough Riders had them. They were one of the last units to ship to Cuba, and had to leave men and mounts behind.Roosevelt was in a huge hurry to see action, and made the choice to take what he was allowed to take. The only reason Brushy would be in Cuba with the Rough Riders at all is if he was a part of that unit.
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 29, 2018 6:49:54 GMT -5
This from history.com
2. The Rough Riders didn’t ride. Famously led by future president Theodore Roosevelt, the 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry played a key—though likely exaggerated—role in the decisive Battle of San Juan Hill and took part in other confrontations of the Spanish-American War. The unit’s title and nickname notwithstanding, this crew of cowboys, sheriffs, outlaws and elites did very little riding. That’s because transport constraints forced the soldiers to abandon nearly all of their horses and mules in Florida when they shipped out to Cuba. While Roosevelt did indeed saddle up to lead his men, most of the Rough Riders fought on foot.
Also found a story or article by the title A SOLDIER'S ACCOUNT OF THE SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR (1898) which may or may not be where your information came from. This story is in the book “The Little War of Private Post” Charles Johnson Post (1873–1956) who served with the 71st New York Infantry as a private which I assume was not a mounted unit either, and was just telling of what he saw as mules and what horses were there being put over board, not Rough Rider horses.
it does not get specific about who’s horses were sent overboard, only that the Rough Riders were part of this force landed that day, so I will stick to my extensive research on the Rough Riders I’ve done over the last year plus and say they had no horses and were made to fight on foot.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 30, 2018 19:01:18 GMT -5
Sep 28, 2018 at 9:37pm I've quoted myself here in response to Rough Rider's not having ponies but the officer's did. I don't know a lot about the Rough Riders or that Brushy was one. I read online in a place where they shipped horses down there and had them jumping ship, it was the same place I was going through names, some Military archives, ...which by the way someone was talking about Brushy and Buffalo soldiers and no one is saying that was him. There are things to look at. Obviously, if it was him that served with the Buffalo soldiers cavalry then we would know to say that, otherwise just look at it. ----Also if you look in ATBK, Brushy say's he was sent there as a scout and later got in charge of the ponies or horses and they got into a fight with the officers which would fit your story about just officers having ponies.
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 30, 2018 20:24:32 GMT -5
Brushy never said anything about serving with Buffalo Sodiers. Seems like something he would have mentioned.
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Post by mckinley412 on Sept 30, 2018 21:03:52 GMT -5
He never said that.
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Post by wannabe12 on Sept 30, 2018 23:26:48 GMT -5
Which is why I said he never mentioned it. Brushy surely would have,had it happened that way.
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