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Post by Pcgamer999 on Oct 17, 2015 11:40:44 GMT -5
Interesting.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 29, 2015 15:35:08 GMT -5
"The theory that Jesse James survived should be revived and looked at again."
There are those who believe in hoaxes, and that Jesse James faked his death. Charlie Bigelow was alledgedly substituted for Jesse, and was buried in Jesse's coffin.
Most believe that Jesse died in 1882. That belief is supported by the 1907 will of his mother, Zerelda Samuel, page 1: "My body I commit to the earth to be buried by my Executor, hereinafter named , in the Baptist Cemetery at Kearney, in Said County of Clay, between my two dead sons, Archibald Peyton Samuel and Jesse W. James in such decent manner as shall befit my condition and circumstances in life: "
Most realize that J. Frank Dalton was an impostor who applied for and received a pension from the State of Texas for claimed service in Missouri as a Quantrill raider under William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson. There is more than one document where J. Frank Dalton claimed a birth date of 8 March 1848. J. Frank Dalton signed an affidavit that he was Jesse Woodson James, born 5 September 1847, only a year or two after he applied for a Texas pension.
J. Frank Dalton wrote a letter to H. H. Crittenden, dated 6 March 1935, Gladewater Texas. This letter is on page 372 of "The Crittenden Memoirs." Dalton says Bill Anderson, supposed to be killed in Ray County, Missouri, during the war, died a few years ago in Brown County, Texas. IF J. Frank Dalton had served under Bill Anderson as stated in his pension application, Dalton would have known Bill Anderson was killed in Ray County in 1864. The resident of Brown County, Bill Anderson, was born in Missouri in 1840. However, he was my great-uncle, patented land, and in 1863 settled in Brown County, and married his wife Martha Elizabeth Anderson in Brown County about August 1863.
J. Frank Dalton wrote on page 368 of The Crittenden Memoirs (paraphrased): I was in Fort Riley, Kansas, when Bob Ford shot Jesse. It was known I had soldiered with him. I was called to identify him. I am positive it was Jesse James, and still am.
J. Frank Dalton, story teller, impostor, but not Jesse James.
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Post by Wayne Land on Oct 29, 2015 20:23:56 GMT -5
I probably shouldn't even chime in here but I want to anyway. To clarify again, my position on J. Frank Dalton. There is a widespread belief that he was proven to be a fraud because of the exhumation of the alleged Jesse's grave years ago. The forensic scientist that examined the remains did not say he had found proof. He simply said that everything he found leads toward the conclusion that the body in the grave was that of Jesse James. He did not claim they had proven it. And they in fact, did not. Mainly because the DNA they examined came from a tooth that did not necessarily come from the body in question.
Likewise, the comments such as those above do not prove it either. I'm thinking those Crittenden Memoirs predated the point at which Dalton came forward with his claim. For example, if you are a surviving Jesse James and you do not want to be discovered would you not make a similar statement to the following? "I was in Fort Riley, Kansas, when Bob Ford shot Jesse. It was known I had soldiered with him. I was called to identify him. I am positive it was Jesse James, and still am."
Does that mean I believe Dalton's claim? No, it doesn't. In fact, I lean toward believing he was a fraud. I just don't think it has been proven. But I also lean toward the belief that the man shot by Bob Ford was not the real Jesse.
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Post by Sam Fraser on Nov 3, 2015 13:13:53 GMT -5
I probably shouldn't even chime in here but I want to anyway. To clarify again, my position on J. Frank Dalton. There is a widespread belief that he was proven to be a fraud because of the exhumation of the alleged Jesse's grave years ago. The forensic scientist that examined the remains did not say he had found proof. He simply said that everything he found leads toward the conclusion that the body in the grave was that of Jesse James. He did not claim they had proven it. And they in fact, did not. Mainly because the DNA they examined came from a tooth that did not necessarily come from the body in question. Likewise, the comments such as those above do not prove it either. I'm thinking those Crittenden Memoirs predated the point at which Dalton came forward with his claim. For example, if you are a surviving Jesse James and you do not want to be discovered would you not make a similar statement to the following? "I was in Fort Riley, Kansas, when Bob Ford shot Jesse. It was known I had soldiered with him. I was called to identify him. I am positive it was Jesse James, and still am." Does that mean I believe Dalton's claim? No, it doesn't. In fact, I lean toward believing he was a fraud. I just don't think it has been proven. But I also lean toward the belief that the man shot by Bob Ford was not the real Jesse. What do you think of the footage?
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Post by Wayne Land on Nov 4, 2015 14:19:19 GMT -5
I don't have a lot of thoughts about the footage except that "if" Dalton really was Jesse, what a rare opportunity to see a film of such a legendary figure. I would "like to" believe that Dalton was the real deal, but I don't have the same confidence in it that I have in Brushy's case. His story is confusing and I don't have a photo of him that would work for comparison purposes. However, I have taken a very close look at the photos of the "alleged" Jesse in his coffin and I do not believe the man in the coffin was Jesse James. That leaves the door open for Dalton's story to be true.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 18, 2016 21:41:55 GMT -5
It would nice to know if there was footage of Brushy Bill Roberts taken somewhere that is waiting to be discovered one day. I believe the Hico museum at one time had a movie of Brushy but it was gone by the time I got there around 2000. I believe some other things disappeared as well during a certain period of change in staff, not sure, so don't quote me. I believe the video they show at the J Frank Dalton museum does have a little bit of Brushy moving around on it, but no voice. Somebody said they posted a voice recording to John Sederwall's facebook but I didn't find it. I believe I heard it once before, tho , and I think it was from the interview he did for a radio show in New York.
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Post by Sam Fraser on Jan 9, 2018 14:53:56 GMT -5
Nevertheless, several people of note, such as journalist/novelist Robert Ruark,[5] were convinced that J. Frank Dalton was the famous outlaw Jesse Woodson James. To many people's surprise, Dalton did appear to have many of the unique body marks/body features which the real Jesse James was rumored to have. These body features included: seven bullet wounds, a rope burn around his neck, a collapsed lung, a damaged fingertip, and severely burned feet.
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Post by clydec on Jan 9, 2018 18:25:12 GMT -5
There is new evidence coming out now that may prove that J Frank Dalton was indeed Jesse James!
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Post by mckinley412 on Jan 16, 2018 20:09:22 GMT -5
I saw it. What I could see of it. I didn't understand it. It wasn't explained last time I looked. I don't think it amounts to anything.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on Oct 3, 2018 21:49:20 GMT -5
There is new evidence coming out now that may prove that J Frank Dalton was indeed Jesse James! J Frank Dalton and Brushy Bill From page 47 of Ola Everhard’s unpublished manuscript, information presumably provided by J Frank Dalton: “On July 4, 1881, the town leaders in St. Joseph, Missouri was getting a parade together. Ozark Jack Berlin, who was also known by Jesse to be Pres. Webb, a good and long time friend, and another good and long time friend called Brushy Bill Roberts, who was also known by Jesse to be the REAL, Billy the Kid, was in town visiting with Jesse that day.” “So as the parade moved slowly down the man street, there riding along, was the much wanted Jesse James with a price on his head and on each side of his was Brushy Bill and Ozark Jack.”
From census records:
Andrew Jackson “Ozark Jack” was born in 1867, and was living in Richland County, Illinois, on June 10, 1880, when the census was recorded. He was 14 years old when the described event occurred. Brushy Bill may have detoured through Missouri on this way to Mexico. Or maybe Ola’s notes were wrong, or maybe it was just another of J. Frank Dalton’s many lies.
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Post by Sam Fraser on Feb 7, 2022 9:40:38 GMT -5
I wonder if any film of Brushy Bill Roberts exists out there?
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Post by garyabc on Jul 8, 2023 15:07:57 GMT -5
Strangely i have very little interest in Dalton's claims. I have only one opinion to add. If Brushy was Billy he knew whether Dalton was a fraud or not. Of course the question is. Would either Brushy or Billy blow the bluff of a friend?
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WhisperingBillyBarlow
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Post by WhisperingBillyBarlow on Oct 27, 2023 8:53:34 GMT -5
What destroyed J. Frank Dalton, ultimately, was Jesse James Jr's wife Stella. She had heard enough of this imposter who was claiming to be her husband's father, so she traveled all the way from California to Missouri with a pair of her father-in-law's boots.
It wasn't the first time a family member dealt with an imposter. Previously Anne James, Frank's wife, confronted a man named John James who claimed to be Jesse. She, too, used her brother-in-law's boots to discredit the imposter.
The interesting part is that J. Frank Dalton bought all of John James's affidavits to "prove" that he was Jesse James, so you had a fraud using another frauds evidence to back up his own case.
Anyways, Dalton was crawled up in Stanton Missouri when Stella James arrived and said if he was really Jesse James he could wear the boots. The real Jesse James had very small feet, size 7.5 boots, and Dalton couldn't fit his feet in them. He wore a size 9 boot.
It didn't help either that Dalton didn't know basic facts about Jesse James's life, such as not knowing the nickname of Jesse's own brother Frank (which was Buck) so Dalton failed miserably under Stella's cross examination.
Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all
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Post by RonBk on Oct 27, 2023 11:33:36 GMT -5
Where did you pick up the story of Stella and the boot event? If true, it would cast some doubts on Dalton's claim. There is also the question however, if the story is true, what about Stella herself? Would she have had any reason to fabricate false evidence against Dalton? Could she have gotten the boots mixed up with someone else's boots?
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WhisperingBillyBarlow
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Post by WhisperingBillyBarlow on Oct 27, 2023 14:27:43 GMT -5
Where did you pick up the story of Stella and the boot event? If true, it would cast some doubts on Dalton's claim. There is also the question however, if the story is true, what about Stella herself? Would she have had any reason to fabricate false evidence against Dalton? Could she have gotten the boots mixed up with someone else's boots? The story can be found in a book entitled, "Legends and Lies: Great Mysteries of the American West" by Dale Walker (1998) on page 104, and the incident in question took place not long after the September 5th, 1950 promotional event held at Meramec Caverns near Stanton promoting J. Frank Dalton as Jesse James. Stella would later be involved in the famous "Stella James vs Rudy Turilli" case in 1967 held in a courtroom in Saint Louis, Missouri where Turilli made the claim he would give anyone $10,000 to prove J. Frank Dalton wasn't Jesse James and the court ruled in Stella James favor, and an appeals court refused to overturn the verdict.
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