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Post by chivato88 on May 5, 2020 18:46:31 GMT -5
The paper trail of Brushy Bill Roberts is a mile wide, from this birth in Bates Township, Sebastian County in 1879, to his death in Hamilton County in 1950. Brushy Bill revealed his real name, Oliver Pleasant Roberts, and date of birth, 26 August 1878 (sic) when he registered for the WWI draft in Little River County, AR.
[/quote] Are you getting tired of writing down the same **** over and over again? Nobody can prove Brushy and O.P. Roberts were the same, hell even Brushy' s wife did not know is date of birth, I bet even Brushy didnt know the exact date either, Paco Anaya who spent lots of time with Billy said once that he was born in May 1861, that means census records are far from accurate. And you know that a census record exist that identifies "William Bonney working in cattle 25 years old", they were off at least 5-6 years, are you saying that census record are more accurate in Sebastian County than Fort Sumner cause you keep insisting that Brushy was born in 1878??
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Post by Elwood on May 5, 2020 21:36:20 GMT -5
Elwood said:
Although New York City records are massive, and many researchers have been lost in the files for decades, there is still a lot to glean from the extant records that are now available online. Back when William J. Carson researched the theory about Patrick Henry McCarthy being the real Billy the Kid, he had to do a lot of digging to find what he considered to be proof of Billy the Kid's birth.
In reference to your reply about the theory of Billy the Kid's family residing at 210 Greene St.:
That is probably the same Patrick McCarthy family that went to the Church of St. Peter on Barclay St. in New York City, and where their son, Patrick Henry McCarthy was baptized in September 1859. But, 210 Greene St. was NOT in the 1st ward of New York City in 1860; it was in the 8th and 15th wards. The McCarthy family that was enumerated in the 1860 Federal census was NOT living on Greene St.; they were living on Washington St., which is in the 1st ward.
June 26, 1860, 1st Division, 1st Ward, New York City, page 176:
Patrick McCarthy, age 30, male, Day Laborer, b Ireland
Cath'n McCarthy, age 29, female, b Ireland
Bridget McCarthy, age 7, female, b New York
Henry McCarthy, age 1, male, b New York
The Patrick McCarty and Catherine McCarty family that resided at 210 Greene St, were very likely another couple with the same names, but were residing in the correct ward of New York City; the 15th ward, where 210 Greene St. WAS located in 1860:
1858-1859 New York City directory, p. 499. Patrick McCarty, laborer, 218 Greene Street
1860 New York City directory, p. 533. Patrick McCarty, 210 Greene Street
1863 New York City directory, p. 541. Patrick MCCARTHY, 210 Greene Street
1864 New York City directory, p. 537. Catherine McCarty, widow of Patrick, 210 Greene Street
July 14, 1860, 1st Division, 15th Ward, New York City, page 88:
Pat McCarthy, age 30, male, Laborer, b Ireland
Cath'n McCarthy, age 30, female, b Ireland
No children listed
You may want to read an interesting magazine article from Real West magazine, May 1969, page 46:
What was Billy the Kid's Real Name? By William J. Carson
This article includes a copy of the Certificate of Baptism for Patrick Henry McCarthy, who was born in September 1859, and the son of Catherine Devine and her husband Patrick McCarthy.
William J. Carson researched the theory (since the early 1960s) about Patrick Henry McCarthy being Billy the Kid. He indicated that 210 Greene St. was at the intersection of 10 Pearl St., where Patrick McCarty had died on December 31, 1862. However, he didn't seem to realize that the 1864-65 New York City directory listed Patrick McCarty's widow as being named Mary A. McCarty, residing at 10 Pearl St.; not Catherine as he had surmised in the article.
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Post by Texas Truth Teller on May 6, 2020 13:01:16 GMT -5
Elwood, Excellent response, citing records, not hearsay or opinions.
Jack DeMattos apparently erred when he concluded, based on circumstantial evidence, that he had identified Patrick Henry McCarty and Catherine Devine as the parents of Billy the Kid.
The childhood of Billy the Kid and the name of his father and maiden name of his mother may remain a mystery forever.
The fact remains that Catherine McCarty and William Antrim were married in Santa Fe, NM, on 1 March 1873, and Henry McCarty and Joseph McCarty were two of the witnesses. According to Brushy's story, he left Silver City in 1872 to go back to Texas to see his people. They were not in Buffalo Gap, but Brushy located them in Carlton and lived with them for 2 years. So Brushy was not in Santa Fe and was not a witness when Catherine McCarty and William Antrim were married.
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Post by mckinley412 on May 16, 2020 19:49:12 GMT -5
In regards to my last post I meant to say the 1900 census says he can't read or write and a later census says he can. Also, in regards to some other comment I made somewhere, I didn't see Michael McCarty, Catherine's husband mentioned in Trailing Billy the Kid, not the McCarty chapter anyway, but I found it somewhere before, I've had to look it up for people before and I believe his name really was Michael. If someone knows, please message me to make sure I get it. It could even be in West of BtK but I heard it was Michael ever since about 2000.
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Post by nmjames on Aug 26, 2022 3:59:45 GMT -5
August 26, 1879, Brushy Bill was born. Today would have been his 143rd. Birthday.
nmjames
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Post by texas truth teller on Aug 26, 2022 11:01:43 GMT -5
August 26, 1879, Brushy Bill was born. Today would have been his 143rd. Birthday. nmjames That is true. Brushy provided that date (confirmed by his niece,Geneva Roberts Pittmon) when he registered for the WWI draft as Oliver Pleasant Roberts, his birth name. Brett Hall chose to ignore that inconvenient fact. There is no record that shows Brushy or Morrison suggested that Brushy assumed the identity of Oliver P Roberts. That assumption is the creation of those who accept Brushy Bill's story as credible.
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Post by Wayne Land on Aug 26, 2022 11:25:00 GMT -5
All of the evidence against Brushy's claim of being the real BTK falls completely apart if you introduce the possibility that he was not the real Oliver P. Roberts. If you can just consider the possibility that Geneva Pittmon's uncle Oliver Pleasant Roberts was not really Brushy then you can debate Brushy's claim of being Billy. If you can not accept that possibility then there is nothing for you to debate. Either he was the real Oliver P. Roberts or he was not. If you believe he was then all the details you put forward are meaningless. If you can't accept that the man who appeared before the draft authorities in 1918 identifying himself as Oliver P. Roberts was not the real Oliver then there is no reason to debate whether Brushy was telling the truth about anything else. So, while I appreciate the presence of the anti-Brushy crowd on the board, I fail to understand what you hope to accomplish by posting here. You're not going to convince anyone and you're not going to be convinced. But by all means, keep trying if you wish.
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