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Post by marchus on Mar 23, 2014 18:48:18 GMT -5
Hello all, I am new to this board-I just joined. I must say that I have read many posts on here and I am very interested in the discussions of Billy the Kid and Brushy Bill. I myself own the books Billy the Kid Beyond the Grave and Return of The Outlaw Billy the Kid. I think Wayne Land who runs this site seems very knowledgeable and a very pleasant person to speak with on this subject. I wanted to let you all know there is a book out by a man named Ralph Estes who wrote that he met Billy the Kid as a teenager and his story like Brushy's is extremely interesting. I would love to read his book. Has anyone read it or heard of it? Here is the link below: www.amazon.com/Autobiography-Billy-Kid-Ralph-Estes/dp/1612961398/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395618474&sr=1-1&keywords=the+autobiography+of+billy+the+kid
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Post by MissyS on Mar 23, 2014 20:53:51 GMT -5
Hello marchus, Welcome to the board!, I'm fairly new here too, to answer your question I have read this book, it is an interesting book about another possible Billy the Kid that got away, only this one claims on his death bed in Wichita Kansas at a senior facility that he escaped Pat Garrett by being shot and wounded but not dying, instead Devulina finds him and whispers for him to play dead, he did, and under the nose of Garrett was lowered in the ground, with breathing holes bore in the casket, after, Garrett skinned out of fear from being around Billy's friends, Billy is raised up and let out of his casket , he takes off back to his childhood town of Wichita Kansas and goes by an alias Henry Carter, after living a life as a rancher, he gets cancer, and on his death bed he tells his story to a high school boy that records his story on tape but stores it in an attic for years until he decides to put it in writing. Henry Carter did ask him not to tell the story until after his death, he died shortly after he told his story, and it does sound convincing, however there's no photos of Henry Carter?, The only thing I find anywhere convincing is that Carter mentions working at a cheese making business after he first leaves home, I once read that Doc Scurlock I believe once had a cheese making business and hired Billy to work for him, this is something Brushy had not mentioned and something not widely known, anyway Carter corrects Pat Garretts book stating the lies, and his story of how he killed Bell and Ollinger sounds more credible. Anyway it is an interesting book, but without photos of the man, only the recorded words, its leaves a lot of questions.
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Post by marchus on Mar 24, 2014 9:50:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply MissyS! That book sounds very intriguing to me. I read the description of it and it sounded interesting to me. I know that Ralph Estes is a historical buff and a very well educated and intellectual man-for him to believe this Henry Carter's story makes me even more fascinated in the book. I would have loved to seen some photos of this man-such a shame there are none.
I absolutely love the topics and debates on this site. I have been interested in Billy the Kid's life ever since I saw Young Guns when I was a teenager. I got very interested in Brushy's story and Billy's mysterious death about 6 or 7 years ago.
I have read so much on the subject but still find new material that I have never seen before on Brushy's claim and Garret's shooting that intrigue me. I believe there is so much in Garret's claim that just doesn't add up. I also love the discussion on here about the photos and which ones are really Billy the Kid and which ones are not. Brushy Bill really has a likeness to him when you look at the photos of him in detail. I think that this whole discussion board makes the legend of Billy the Kid all the more mysterious and fascinating to all involved in it-Very cool.
I would love to visit the museums in Hico Texas and Lincoln County in New Mexico. I know that Wayne Land has been to both but has anyone on here been to either or both?
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Post by Wayne Land on Mar 24, 2014 15:02:50 GMT -5
Marchus (and Missy),
I am so very happy you are enjoying the board. Yes, I've been to Hico and Hamilton, TX and Lincoln and Fort Sumner, NM. As far as museums go, the one in Old Fort Sumner, right next to Billy's "official" grave site, is by far the largest because it contains a large collection of period pieces that are not directly connected to Billy and other stuff from later periods as well. It is very enjoyable however some have questioned the authenticity of some of the exhibits. They have a rifle and chaps they say were Billy's but they likely were not and they have a small purse full of hair that was supposedly saved as a souvenir by a barber who cut Billy's hair (also questionable authenticity). There is a door they say came from the Maxwell house with bullet holes in it and curtains that came from Maxwell's house and a post that Billy carved his name into. I suspect those are authentic but who knows. In Lincoln there are several museums. The one in the the court house has some letters by Billy and chains that were allegedly the ones he escaped from at the court house. At Tunstall's store they have some of Tunstall's belongings on display. And there's another fairly large museum with period clothes, saddles and such and really interesting for me (since I am a musician), they have Susan McSween's piano. There's a very nice museum in Ruidoso. Not a lot of Billy stuff, but they do have one of his pistols and it is authentic. They have some very interesting photos regarding the Lincoln County War and a variety of Stage Coaches, wagons, etc. from the time. In Hico there is a fairly small museum dedicated to Brushy but you wouldn't want to miss it. They have marriage certificates of Brushy's and many news stories. They have a saddle they say was his and an old trunk that at one time contained his notebooks, medals and such. Down the road in Hamilton, near where Brushy is buried, there is another museum run by a lady who claims to be related to Brushy, I think great niece but I don't remember for sure. She has binders full of letters and documents that worth perusing. Over in Canton, TX there is a Billy The Kid museum run by Dr. Jannay Valdez. He has a large collection of newspaper reports on display. If you go there, try to contact him and ask for a guided tour and he will take you in the back of the building where he has a dozen or so file cabinets filled with documents, letters and such he has collected over the years. Normally his museum is a self guided tour but you won't have access to the storage in the back. Canton is relevant to Brushy's story because that's where the Roberts family eventually lived and there are descendants still living there.
I hope you get to visit these areas sometime. I was there in 2006 as part of a year long RV trip my wife and I took while we were decompressing from the stress of Hurricane Katrina's aftermath.
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Post by MissyS on Mar 24, 2014 16:45:37 GMT -5
Hi Wayne,& Marchus Thanks for the info, I have been to Hico its a cool place, the town folk are very well informed too. I love Canton also it has a huge flea market they call First Monday, good place to shop for antiques. I didnt know about the back tour in the museum Dr. Jannay Valdez has a book about Brushy too if Im not mistaken?, it makes you think if they have this much stuff about Brushy, documents, letters etc.. it must be genuine?, I wish Brushy had lived longer, I would love to visit New Mexico some day. I read in an old west magazine that up in the mountains Billy, Rudabaugh, Wilson and Tom O folliard carved thier names in the rocks, I wonder if its still there? Marchus there are alot of good books on Billy the Kid, the ones written by people that knew him to me are the best and more believable, however there are some well documented ones "West of Billy the Kid" is a good book it has alot of historical photos, and if you can find a copy of "The Artists and Writers Saga The Kid, Billy The Kid" by Bill Rakocy its a wonderful book to own it has alot of drawings and info made in a scrapbook style, and every copy has an autograghed drawing or watercolor sketch in the front.
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Post by marchus on Mar 24, 2014 17:08:34 GMT -5
Thanks so much MissyS and Wayne Land! I appreciate both of you welcoming me to the forum and thank you so much for all of the info.
I appreciate you filling me in on what sites and museums are cool to see and I appreciate the info on the books MissyS! Thank you much.
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Post by mckinley412 on Jun 15, 2016 21:39:23 GMT -5
i have not read it but it sounds like one I just ordered called The Stone Garden The Epic Life of Billy the Kid which I think is gonna be super good. Kid faked his death in it and him and Pat tell the story. I been to all 3 Brushy museums. I love going to their festival in Hico when I can. Myrna Carpenter is the name of the lady that ran the one in Hamilton. I wonder how she is.
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